63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

I wonder what quality medical care you will recieve if your doctors don't earn much.
You could get the care you recieve in GB, where more and more of the medical staff is from overseas.

The Viking wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

Vice Lord wrote: Healthcare for profit is immoral.

You and I are going to have a lot to say to each other, I can tell.

the doctors, nurses, orderlies and health insurance companies that should be willing to serve the needs of their fellow citizens without accumulating any wealth in the process.........

Thats called income, not profit, and the rest of your post is too ridiculous to even respond to.

You totally cut his quote in half. I would love to hear your answer on his question. If you feel Profit in Healthcare is immoral, then how would all the people working in that industry get paid? If there were no profit in the industry who would want to get into that industry and then who would go to school for 19 years to become a doctor when there is no profit in that industry? I am just trying to figure out where you are coming from and how you think the health care industry should be handled.

Getting paid for you labor is not profit and is not imoral..Doctors and nurses all get paid in the UK, they all get paid in Canada...but if you want to become a doctor to get filthy, 5 houses and yacht rich, then your in the wrong profession brother...

So which profession should you be allowed to gain wealth? And who gets to choose? Should Lawyers for suing people? Should althetes and actors for entertaining us? Who gets to decide. Capitalism decides. The law of supply and demand.

Are teachers subjected to supply and demand? No- Do you know why? Because education is part of the structure of a healthy society, and so is Healthcare. And what we have now in America doesn't even remotely resemble Capitalism, are you kidding? Capitalism died in 1929 my friend..Ever since then the government has propped the economy up with hundreds of millions and billions of dollars every year..Republicans want to invest it in war and war production (aka looting the treasury) while Democrats want to invest it in things we actually need like roads, bridges, dams, education, libraries, hospitals, parks, healthcare...etc, etc,etc

Vice Lord wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

Vice Lord wrote: Healthcare for profit is immoral.

You and I are going to have a lot to say to each other, I can tell.

the doctors, nurses, orderlies and health insurance companies that should be willing to serve the needs of their fellow citizens without accumulating any wealth in the process.........

Thats called income, not profit, and the rest of your post is too ridiculous to even respond to.

You totally cut his quote in half. I would love to hear your answer on his question. If you feel Profit in Healthcare is immoral, then how would all the people working in that industry get paid? If there were no profit in the industry who would want to get into that industry and then who would go to school for 19 years to become a doctor when there is no profit in that industry? I am just trying to figure out where you are coming from and how you think the health care industry should be handled.

Getting paid for you labor is not profit and is not imoral..Doctors and nurses all get paid in the UK, they all get paid in Canada...but if you want to become a doctor to get filthy, 5 houses and yacht rich, then your in the wrong profession brother...

So which profession should you be allowed to gain wealth? And who gets to choose? Should Lawyers for suing people? Should althetes and actors for entertaining us? Who gets to decide. Capitalism decides. The law of supply and demand.

Are teachers subjected to supply and demand? No- Do you know why? Because education is part of the structure of a healthy society, and so is Healthcare. And what we have now in America doesn't even remotely resemble Capitalism, are you kidding? Capitalism died in 1929 my friend..Ever since then the government has propped the economy up with hundreds of millions and billions of dollars every year..Republicans want to invest it in war and war production (aka looting the treasury) while Democrats want to invest it in things we actually need like roads, bridges, dams, education, libraries, hospitals, parks, healthcare...etc, etc,etc

Actually if you discount the Bush's, wars have been started by the Dems.
Vietnam? LBJ & Kennedy
Korea? Truman
WWII? FDR
WWI? Woodrow Wilson.
And LBJ was the master "W" learned from, spending for both guns & butter. LBJ financed both the Great Society & Vietnam.
"W" financed Afghanistan, Iraq, and Medicare prescription drugs with debt.

Makes me want to go back to the times of kings and gold, they could only start wars if they could get the financing. If the Rothschilds didn't pay for it, France had to stay home.

SS109 wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

Vice Lord wrote: Healthcare for profit is immoral.

You and I are going to have a lot to say to each other, I can tell.

the doctors, nurses, orderlies and health insurance companies that should be willing to serve the needs of their fellow citizens without accumulating any wealth in the process.........

Thats called income, not profit, and the rest of your post is too ridiculous to even respond to.

You totally cut his quote in half. I would love to hear your answer on his question. If you feel Profit in Healthcare is immoral, then how would all the people working in that industry get paid? If there were no profit in the industry who would want to get into that industry and then who would go to school for 19 years to become a doctor when there is no profit in that industry? I am just trying to figure out where you are coming from and how you think the health care industry should be handled.

Getting paid for you labor is not profit and is not imoral..Doctors and nurses all get paid in the UK, they all get paid in Canada...but if you want to become a doctor to get filthy, 5 houses and yacht rich, then your in the wrong profession brother...

So which profession should you be allowed to gain wealth? And who gets to choose? Should Lawyers for suing people? Should althetes and actors for entertaining us? Who gets to decide. Capitalism decides. The law of supply and demand.

Are teachers subjected to supply and demand? No- Do you know why? Because education is part of the structure of a healthy society, and so is Healthcare. And what we have now in America doesn't even remotely resemble Capitalism, are you kidding? Capitalism died in 1929 my friend..Ever since then the government has propped the economy up with hundreds of millions and billions of dollars every year..Republicans want to invest it in war and war production (aka looting the treasury) while Democrats want to invest it in things we actually need like roads, bridges, dams, education, libraries, hospitals, parks, healthcare...etc, etc,etc

Actually if you discount the Bush's, wars have been started by the Dems.
Vietnam? LBJ & Kennedy
Korea? Truman
WWII? FDR
WWI? Woodrow Wilson.
And LBJ was the master "W" learned from, spending for both guns & butter. LBJ financed both the Great Society & Vietnam.
"W" financed Afghanistan, Iraq, and Medicare prescription drugs with debt.

Makes me want to go back to the times of kings and gold, they could only start wars if they could get the financing. If the Rothschilds didn't pay for it, France had to stay home.

How about a War Tax, or the Draft...We'd see all the gung-ho war mongers fall to the wayside if they had to actually pay for it out of their paychecks, or with their kids lives..

Vice Lord wrote:

SS109 wrote: Actually if you discount the Bush's, wars have been started by the Dems.
Vietnam? LBJ & Kennedy
Korea? Truman
WWII? FDR
WWI? Woodrow Wilson.
And LBJ was the master "W" learned from, spending for both guns & butter. LBJ financed both the Great Society & Vietnam.
"W" financed Afghanistan, Iraq, and Medicare prescription drugs with debt.

Makes me want to go back to the times of kings and gold, they could only start wars if they could get the financing. If the Rothschilds didn't pay for it, France had to stay home.

How about a War Tax, or the Draft...We'd see all the gung-ho war mongers fall to the wayside if they had to actually pay for it out of their paychecks, or with their kids lives..

So who do you want to pay for protecting our country?

Vice Lord wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

Vice Lord wrote: Healthcare for profit is immoral.

You and I are going to have a lot to say to each other, I can tell.

the doctors, nurses, orderlies and health insurance companies that should be willing to serve the needs of their fellow citizens without accumulating any wealth in the process.........

Thats called income, not profit, and the rest of your post is too ridiculous to even respond to.

So when the folks selling Band-Aids sell them for more than the cost of making them, they are not earning profit they are generating income. That would mean that there is no profit in health care, only income derived from the services rendered by all the companies that contribute to caring for the health of the people in the nation. Thus, your earlier charge, that it is immoral to derive profit from health care, would be without basis in reality. Which, come to think of it, is precisely the case.

The only reason that you respond that the rest is ridiculous is that you have no firm foundation upon which to base a counter argument. You concede the point I raised that it is only certain segments of the industry, not the entire industry, that you feel should be prohibited from accumulating wealth from profits earned by supplying the industry with the necessary components to provide care. You feel the insurance industry should not be rewarded for risking financial loss by issuing insurance policies. Investors in the insurance industry should not expect a return on that investment. How far down the chain should that idea flow? Should the person who sells the policy be rewarded with a bonus for selling a lot of policies? Should the claims adjusters be rewarded with a bonus for providing excellent customer service or a high volume of cases such that the company doesn't necessarily have to hire more adjusters and increase their cost of operation?

Doctors and nurses generally incorporate themselves to protect them from the ridiculous liability they face in our litigation filled society. Thus, their accumulation of wealth, via their corporation, is indeed profit, not income. And even the wages that are paid via the corporation are above and beyond what the average wages of anyone in the middle class earns. A family physician with a private practice will likely be in the top 5% of wage earners in the nation, if not higher, based upon the income they receive from their corporation. Certainly this is obscene in the eyes of one who believes that to profit from providing health care is immoral. The doctors should be satisfied earning what the typical family earns, should they not? Why should they enjoy a better life than someone who swings a hammer for a living? Why are they entitled to earn more than most people? Why should they be in the top 5% of earners?

More importantly, what entitles anyone to their services without compensation for their services? What entitles any government entity to require them to provide their services, for which they have spent years acquiring the necessary knowledge and skill, for no compensation or for the compensation that is determined, not by themselves of the free market, but by a governmental agency dictating how much they will be allowed to charge?

Vice Lord wrote: How about a War Tax, or the Draft...We'd see all the gung-ho war mongers fall to the wayside if they had to actually pay for it out of their paychecks, or with their kids lives..

I personally would like to forbid the withholding of taxes from paychecks and paying taxes at the time of purchase and have the people write a check every month to the local, state and federal governments for all the taxes that are essentially hidden from them by the current tax laws. Once the people saw the amount of taxes they were actually paying instead of simply the amount of money left after the government stole their "fair" share, I think you would see a tax revolution akin to the one our founders waged.

Imagine having to submit the amount of fuel you had bought for the month and then having to write a check to the government to cover the taxes on that purchase. Submitting your purchases for the month and then having to write a separate check to cover the taxes levies upon those purchases. Getting every dollar of the wages you earned and then receiving a bill for the taxes that you had to pay on those wages for your Social Security and Medicare "contributions" and the income taxes.

PS just think of the cost of collection. It would double the size of the gov. just to collect.

PrintSmith wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

Vice Lord wrote: Healthcare for profit is immoral.

You and I are going to have a lot to say to each other, I can tell.

the doctors, nurses, orderlies and health insurance companies that should be willing to serve the needs of their fellow citizens without accumulating any wealth in the process.........

Thats called income, not profit, and the rest of your post is too ridiculous to even respond to.

So when the folks selling Band-Aids sell them for more than the cost of making them, they are not earning profit they are generating income.

I can't even believe you are even making this argument..The government buys stuff all the time-They don't operate giant prison factories- they buy from private industry, and those private industries make a profit..And when it comes to defense contractors they make ridiculous profits..The government buys the $300 toilet seat for the B-52 and Boeing or whoever makes a profit, and we get defense. The Government will buy 20 million band aids, Johnson & Johnson makes a profit, and we all get a free band-aid the doctor puts one on us..

Understand?

PrintSmith wrote:

Vice Lord wrote: How about a War Tax, or the Draft...We'd see all the gung-ho war mongers fall to the wayside if they had to actually pay for it out of their paychecks, or with their kids lives..

I personally would like to forbid the withholding of taxes from paychecks and paying taxes at the time of purchase and have the people write a check every month to the local, state and federal governments for all the taxes that are essentially hidden from them by the current tax laws. Once the people saw the amount of taxes they were actually paying instead of simply the amount of money left after the government stole their "fair" share, I think you would see a tax revolution akin to the one our founders waged.

Imagine having to submit the amount of fuel you had bought for the month and then having to write a check to the government to cover the taxes on that purchase. Submitting your purchases for the month and then having to write a separate check to cover the taxes levies upon those purchases. Getting every dollar of the wages you earned and then receiving a bill for the taxes that you had to pay on those wages for your Social Security and Medicare "contributions" and the income taxes.

Do you guys want to live in a no tax world? Go to the heart of the Amazon or the Congo Jungle..No roads, no sewage plants, no good water, no jobs, no law except the law of the jungle.....You tough guys wanna live in a jungle, go to Africa! You could'nt live in the world you want to create. If its everyman for himself you wouldn't be able to leave your house (if you could even have a house) without paying a warlord a toll (probably your daughter) to cross his territory...Its called civilised society guys..You need it to survive..

Big talkers- Thats all ya are