One More Massacre

24 Jul 2012 17:41 #211 by Martin Ent Inc
Replied by Martin Ent Inc on topic One More Massacre
Remember Grandby.

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24 Jul 2012 17:53 #212 by Martin Ent Inc
Replied by Martin Ent Inc on topic One More Massacre
We must Ban Mesquitoes, 14 people have died and many more sick already from these flying terrorists.

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24 Jul 2012 18:05 #213 by appleannie
Replied by appleannie on topic One More Massacre

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: A sane voice on the gun control issue...

“This person, if there were no assault weapons available, if there were no this or no that, this guy’s going to find something, right? He’s going to know how to create a bomb. Who knows where his mind would have gone. Clearly a very intelligent individual however twisted,” he said during an interview on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

“If it was not one weapon, it would have been another, and he was diabolical,” he said.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... z21Z32sEF1


Of course, he's just another ranting, outraged conservative.


Makes sense to me but why stop there? Let's disband the military and all law enforcement agencies because if bad people really want to do bad things, they'll find a way to do them regardless. We can save a lot of money if we just accept that we can't stop any of them. For that matter, what's the use of laws when some people still break them?

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24 Jul 2012 18:17 #214 by PrintSmith
Replied by PrintSmith on topic One More Massacre
The purpose of the law isn't to protect you annie, it's to provide for the punishment of the person who harmed you or the society with their actions. That's an important distinction that many on the left overlook. If you wish to live in a free society you have to abandon the idea that you can live in a safe society. As I stated on another forum, that is the yin and yang of freedom. It comes with a price and that price is that if you are free to live your life as you wish, where your privacy is one of your guaranteed rights and the government is prohibited from disarming you then you are not going to be safe. The freedoms have to be exchanged for the feeling of security that you are desperately seeking. The largest problem with doing that is that the feeling of security that you have exchanged your freedoms for is most often just that - a feeling - instead of something that is guaranteed to occur.

There were armed Aurora Police officers at the theater when the madman went on his rampage who were there for the purpose of crowd control. Fat lot of good it did to have them there other than they were on the scene already to take the suspect into custody after he had finished what he came to do. The government can't keep you safe from every bad thing that can possibly occur annie - regardless of how much of your freedom you are willing to trade for the feeling that they can.

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24 Jul 2012 18:53 #215 by appleannie
Replied by appleannie on topic One More Massacre

If you wish to live in a free society you have to abandon the idea that you can live in a safe society. As I stated on another forum, that is the yin and yang of freedom. It comes with a price and that price is that if you are free to live your life as you wish, where your privacy is one of your guaranteed rights and the government is prohibited from disarming you then you are not going to be safe. The freedoms have to be exchanged for the feeling of security that you are desperately seeking. The largest problem with doing that is that the feeling of security that you have exchanged your freedoms for is most often just that - a feeling - instead of something that is guaranteed to occur.


Do quit trying to read my mind, Printsmith. You're really bad at it. The way I'm hearing you is that laws and the punishment for breaking them do not deter anyone from breaking them and that's just not true. Most people manage to stay within the law most of the time if they don't want to pay fines or do time or whatever. I don't want the government to disarm me (yes, me - I've got 3 of my own and why the hell is it that some people can not hear "regulations" without interpreting that as "they want to take my guns away!"). I would, however, like to see everyone have to jump through at least as many hoops to own and use firearms as they have to clear to drive legally or build a house, fercryinoutloud. No, it won't stop all the crazies but every little bit helps.

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24 Jul 2012 19:51 #216 by Martin Ent Inc
Replied by Martin Ent Inc on topic One More Massacre
Criminals and crazies alike will get their weapon of choice regardless of how many laws you want on the books.
Even this shooter told the officials this before his arraignment.

So more laws mean absolutely nothing. hard to explain to people that won't listen or read up on the current laws in place, some 30k+ just on firearms.

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24 Jul 2012 20:01 #217 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic One More Massacre

PrintSmith wrote:

Science Chic wrote: <


READ THAT!!!!![/color]

I did - and what I came away with was that it was written by someone who feels that by enacting more legislation something bad like this can be stopped. What good would a waiting period have done SC? The madman started planning for this months ago. If the law had been he had to wait two weeks or a month to take possession of his firearms are you really thinking that this would have stopped him? Are we really, seriously, going to have someone make an appointment with a mental health professional every time they wish to purchase a gun to make sure that they have at least a thin tether to reality first?

You did? Because I didn't get that result at all. I saw a guy who was extremely fluent in sarcasm and irreverence, bashing the media for their whoring for ratings, Americans for their knee-jerk reactions and using the situation to justify their own political beliefs (every party, not just one side), and someone who didn't say anything about whether there should be more or less legislation, just that we will go through this process at the next shooting until someday we get completely desensitized and callous.

I haven't said one word about gun control, waiing periods, background checks, or anything else gun-related. My comments have been, and strictly are, about changing the human condition because that's the root of the problem. We can give guns to every man woman and child, or take guns away from every man woman and child, in this country and neither scenario is going to solve the underlying problem: that we still do not hold life sacrosanct. That we do not first listen, respect, and learn from others but rather rush to judge, spew our opinions, try to change others to our way of thinking, condemn, and think nothing of the harm we cause others either with our words, or our actions. Imagine if the entire world were like a Buddhist monastery? Now imagine the entire world like the worst slums of Cambodia. We are somewhere in between, and as a species I hope working our way toward enlightenment, but not even close to it. So no, taking the guns away will not solve the problem; we'll just find other ways to hurt each other because that's still what we do.

And that's what I saw that blogger saying - that every side is ridiculous.

I noticed that the biggest weapon in that blogger's arsenal is ridicule of others - Alinsky would be very proud of that effort. That piece is simply wasted bandwidth. Legislation whose goal is a perception of security is a waste of everyone's time, effort and treasure. Waiting periods and psych exams won't stop the guns sold to those of solid character and sound mind from being stolen from them by those of poor character and unsound mind. Laws won't protect anyone from what happened last Friday morning from happening again. Pass as many of them as you want, even an outright ban on all guns that aren't black powder muzzle loaders won't stop it from happening again and again and again.

There's a fine line between ridicule and sarcasm/irony to prove a point. :) I don't think it's wasted bandwidth if it says something that no one else has said; that we are all absurd. (btw, read Stage 6 again, I'm pretty sure he's NOT saying he's for more legislation [nor am I, it won't do any good]).

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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24 Jul 2012 20:18 #218 by Blazer Bob
Replied by Blazer Bob on topic One More Massacre
Bloomburg has the answer.


http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/24/mayor ... ld-go-on-s

"New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg told CNN's Piers Morgan last night that he doesn't "understand why police officers across this country don’t stand up collectively and say we’re going to go on strike, we’re not going to protect you unless you, the public, through your legislature, do what’s required to keep us safe."

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24 Jul 2012 21:36 - 25 Jul 2012 05:42 #219 by CC
Replied by CC on topic One More Massacre

Martin Ent Inc wrote: We must Ban Mesquitoes, 14 people have died and many more sick already from these flying terrorists.


We certainly need more controls on this out of control crisis.

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24 Jul 2012 21:54 #220 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic One More Massacre

PrintSmith wrote:

Science Chic wrote: <


READ THAT!!!!![/color]

I did - and what I came away with was that it was written by someone who feels that by enacting more legislation something bad like this can be stopped. What good would a waiting period have done SC? The madman started planning for this months ago. If the law had been he had to wait two weeks or a month to take possession of his firearms are you really thinking that this would have stopped him? Are we really, seriously, going to have someone make an appointment with a mental health professional every time they wish to purchase a gun to make sure that they have at least a thin tether to reality first?

P.S. That blogger just posted an update to the bottom of that entry 35min ago - go see what he has to say (especially the part in bold).

This is the sentence that sticks out in my mind from the original post:
The only thing Americans will remember, is that James Holmes is yet another sterling example of whatever political point they're trying to make at that particular moment."

Supposedly liberals will argue for more gun control, supposedly conservatives will argue for protecting our 2nd Amendment rights so we can protect ourselves from crazies like that...the arguments never end because we don't listen to one another. (his quote: "Both sides are equally convinced that they are right. That's it and that's all. No compromise...You cannot reason with unreasonable people.") The point he didn't make, and that I am, is that they also don't address the root of the problem - it's not the availability of guns, it's our propensity to use them, our cultures that still celebrate/endorse/encourage violence, and our fundamental lack of holding life sacred. Until that attitude/biological urge changes, no artificially imposed law will change anything and it won't matter what type of weapon it is, be it swords, guns, or bombs.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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