One More Massacre

Science Chic wrote:
[snip]

My comments have been, and strictly are, about changing the human condition because that's the root of the problem.

[snip]

And that one sentence betrays ever having a solution to the problem. Humans are not computers, you don't plug them into a USB port and reprogram them. As long as actual living brain cells are still the active mechanism that control our day to day existence, there will be people like Holmes breaking ranks. Opinions about the sanity of humans is highly overrated.

appleannie wrote: Do quit trying to read my mind, Printsmith. You're really bad at it. The way I'm hearing you is that laws and the punishment for breaking them do not deter anyone from breaking them and that's just not true. Most people manage to stay within the law most of the time if they don't want to pay fines or do time or whatever. I don't want the government to disarm me (yes, me - I've got 3 of my own and why the hell is it that some people can not hear "regulations" without interpreting that as "they want to take my guns away!"). I would, however, like to see everyone have to jump through at least as many hoops to own and use firearms as they have to clear to drive legally or build a house, fercryinoutloud. No, it won't stop all the crazies but every little bit helps.

No one is trying to read your mind annie, least of all me. I've got some news for you. What keeps the vast majority of your fellow citizens from doing harm to you or the society has nothing to do with there being laws against them doing so. They don't do harm because they are decent human beings. The laws are written to deal with those who aren't decent human beings, not to keep the decent ones decent. It isn't fear of punishment that keeps the vast majority of us from breaking the laws, it is our respect for the rights and property of others. The security of your person and your property is dependent upon the character of your fellow citizens, not the laws. The laws provide the means to punish the members of the society who do not respect the rights and liberties of their fellow citizens after they have harmed their fellow citizen, not prevent the harm from occurring. That is why we need laws. Not for safety, because the law can't provide safety, but to allow the society the means to punish those who have harmed someone else.

Freedom is dangerous annie. That's the simple fact of the matter. The more free the society is the more dangerous it is going to be. The more freedom you have to act as you wish, the more freedom you have to act inappropriately. Your right to have your privacy safe from the prying eyes of the government is what gives someone else the ability to use that right to keep the government from finding out that they are about to rob a bank. If you are willing to surrender your right to privacy and allow the government to monitor your activities 24/7/365, then we can probably prevent others from robbing the bank too, but that's the price that will have to be paid if we want to try and stop people from robbing banks. That won't stop everyone mind you, but every little bit helps, right?

Speaking of missing neurons . I especially liked the "opinions ... is highly overrated" comment.

Science Chic wrote: You're right, our minds work much more efficiently than the crude computers we humans have devised.

Oh I don't know about that. I walked into the kitchen for something and suddenly got a mental "blue screen of death". Had to walk out and go back in to remember what I went in there for. :Whistle

Martin Ent Inc wrote: Criminals and crazies alike will get their weapon of choice regardless of how many laws you want on the books.
Even this shooter told the officials this before his arraignment.

So more laws mean absolutely nothing. hard to explain to people that won't listen or read up on the current laws in place, some 30k+ just on firearms.

But I doubt they can hear you MEI.

Looks like Holmes wanted others to know too.
James Holmes Mailed Massacre Plans to School Psychiatrist: Report
http://www.people.com/people/article/0, ... 74,00.html

:can't hear :can't hear :can't hear :can't hear :can't hear

Science Chic wrote:

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote:

Science Chic wrote:
[snip]

My comments have been, and strictly are, about changing the human condition because that's the root of the problem.

[snip]

And that one sentence betrays ever having a solution to the problem. Humans are not computers, you don't plug them into a USB port and reprogram them. As long as actual living brain cells are still the active mechanism that control our day to day existence, there will be people like Holmes breaking ranks. Opinions about the sanity of humans is highly overrated.

You're right, our minds work much more efficiently than the crude computers we humans have devised. But brains are still subject to programming - neural pathways are strengthened by use, and deleted with non-use, injury, or disease. Neurons are malleable, desired behaviors learned and reinforced, and over an evolutionary time scale, if increased cooperation and decreased antagonism continue to spread, the species as a whole can undergo cultural shifts that reduce violence and fix the root of the problem. But only if we want that on a population scale.

What you say makes a lot of sense SC, but unlike a computer, it would take at least a generation to change the culture of hate that's been created imo. And even if we did have enough time to "evolve", how could that happen since we all have unrestricted access to the most horrible and perverted images the past generations could have never imagined? I still believe the majority of the human race is more good than bad, but the bad ones are making headway and i don't think we're smart enough as a whole to do anything about it.

1000's of years have come and gone and not much differnce in the hate factor.
As long as man walks the face of the earth there will be hate and mental issues as one percieves things differntly.