Catholic Church denounces capitalism

FredHayek wrote:

chickaree wrote: You seek to offend by calling me dishonest, but do not pretend that you, an atheist, can begin to understand the teachings of Our Lord. If you heart is closed to the Word, you cannot hear it.

Sounds like a copout statement. You can only understand my god if you have been converted (or brainwashed). I think I can be a scholar of the Buddhist faith without being a Buddhist.

Up to an earlier statement, the opulence of Vatican City. I have visited and was impressed with the art in the museum. Would you have it all be sold and the money given to the poor?

Back after the fall of the Roman Empire, monastaries held much of the knowledge of the western world, should they have sold it to make money for the poor? The church has many functions, and while I like the new Pope's humility and rejection of material wealth, there are times to hold wealth in trust. Or would you supprt selling off Yellowstone National Park and giving the money to poor people with huge medical bills?
People and corporations would pay huge sums to own Old Faithful and Yellowstone Lake.

It is a copout statement... she can't use scripture to prove her point... because her point doesn't exist in the Hebrew/Christian scriptures. She took a shot across the bow and missed.

PrintSmith wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: Why would I be against capitalism? I am a huge proponent of it, but I also believe in helping those in need of assistance. I am just against those who try to claim moral clarity in order to justify their own selfishness.

As do the majority of Christians in general - as a personal obligation of serving their God as He taught them to serve Him. Salvation Army? Who do you think started that outfit Dog, an atheist? Catholic Charities ring a bell with you? Samaritan's Purse? Compassion International? I can list a bunch of them Dog, the list is a lot longer than anything anyone would like to see posted here.

One must presume that you are attempting to make the tired, and unsubstantiated, "progressive" argument that paying taxes to the government to support the poor was one of Jesus' teachings - though no one I am aware of has yet to provide a single scriptural reference where Jesus taught any such thing.

Something the Dog Said wrote: So you believe Americans should turn their back on the teachings of Christ and worship at the altar of money?

Are you proposing that they turn their backs on His teachings and worship at the alter of government instead? Didn't He make a clear distinction between one's duty to Caesar and one's duty to God? Did Jesus teach that one must make a personal sacrifice for government or for their Creator?

Yet once again you choose to resort to creating dishonest straw man arguments rather than address the topic directly. I believe, as Pope Francis described, the growing inequality in the incomes between the one percent and the working class is a societal problem. That this inequality has occurred, not because of any prolific increase in the work habits of the wealthiest, but to gaming the financial and tax codes. That the policies favoring increasing the wealth of the few at the harm to those at the lower end of the economic strata do not follow the teachings of Christ.

I hear a lot about inequality of wealth and incomes, but I don't see any examples of wealth disparate economies where the inequality can be linked to worse conditions.

There are examples of the reverse however, China for one. In the Mao days of communism, there was much less distance between wealth, but many more people were dirt poor and barely surviving. Nowdays? Many more Chinese ave super wealthy, more millionaires in Chinese super cities than the US overall, but even the urban people are much better off, and have seen big improvements in wages and conditions in the last 10 years. Sure, compared to the superrich they are technically worse off, only earning 1% yearly wages. But I think if you asked them, you can have your bosses earn $1,000,000 a year and you earn only $20,000, Or you can have your bosses earn only $50,000 and you earn only $5,000, I think they would prefer the wealth disparity.

Even in a case like the bad conditions in Bangladesh garment factories, people still prefer the jobs over being dirt poor farmers working from sunup to sundown.

Something the Dog Said wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: Why would I be against capitalism? I am a huge proponent of it, but I also believe in helping those in need of assistance. I am just against those who try to claim moral clarity in order to justify their own selfishness.

As do the majority of Christians in general - as a personal obligation of serving their God as He taught them to serve Him. Salvation Army? Who do you think started that outfit Dog, an atheist? Catholic Charities ring a bell with you? Samaritan's Purse? Compassion International? I can list a bunch of them Dog, the list is a lot longer than anything anyone would like to see posted here.

One must presume that you are attempting to make the tired, and unsubstantiated, "progressive" argument that paying taxes to the government to support the poor was one of Jesus' teachings - though no one I am aware of has yet to provide a single scriptural reference where Jesus taught any such thing.

Something the Dog Said wrote: So you believe Americans should turn their back on the teachings of Christ and worship at the altar of money?

Are you proposing that they turn their backs on His teachings and worship at the alter of government instead? Didn't He make a clear distinction between one's duty to Caesar and one's duty to God? Did Jesus teach that one must make a personal sacrifice for government or for their Creator?

Yet once again you choose to resort to creating dishonest straw man arguments rather than address the topic directly. I believe, as Pope Francis described, the growing inequality in the incomes between the one percent and the working class is a societal problem. That this inequality has occurred, not because of any prolific increase in the work habits of the wealthiest, but to gaming the financial and tax codes. That the policies favoring increasing the wealth of the few at the harm to those at the lower end of the economic strata do not follow the teachings of Christ.

Can you give some scriptural references for your position?

Something the Dog Said wrote: Why would I be against capitalism? I am a huge proponent of it, but I also believe in helping those in need of assistance. I am just against those who try to claim moral clarity in order to justify their own selfishness.

Who is claiming moral clarity, and what is your idea of selfishness? If I get rich because I started a business and was smart enough to make it a huge success, am I the selfish because the family down the street is living off food stamps? Just trying to clarify who the bad guy is in your point.

Something the Dog Said wrote: Yet once again you choose to resort to creating dishonest straw man arguments rather than address the topic directly. I believe, as Pope Francis described, the growing inequality in the incomes between the one percent and the working class is a societal problem. That this inequality has occurred, not because of any prolific increase in the work habits of the wealthiest, but to gaming the financial and tax codes. That the policies favoring increasing the wealth of the few at the harm to those at the lower end of the economic strata do not follow the teachings of Christ.

Obviously, the pope hasn't heard of the ministries of the "Jesus-wants-you-to-be-rich...Just-send-us-money-and-we'll-tell-you-how" Christian-Capitalism gang from "The Church of the Holy Microdish"...Oh, folks like Jimmy Swaggert, Robert Tilton, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Jim Bakker, ad nauseum...

They don' need no steenkin' po' people touching their $3000 suits, or dirtying up the runways for their private jets. The pope is just misinformed...But I'm sure the Club For Growth, and Heritage Foundation can set him right...

(Too bad about that condemnation of Paul Ryan by the Catholic Church for his "non-Christian" interpretations of Catholic teachings...)

Rick wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: Why would I be against capitalism? I am a huge proponent of it, but I also believe in helping those in need of assistance. I am just against those who try to claim moral clarity in order to justify their own selfishness.

Who is claiming moral clarity, and what is your idea of selfishness? If I get rich because I started a business and was smart enough to make it a huge success, am I the selfish because the family down the street is living off food stamps? Just trying to clarify who the bad guy is in your point.

Off to that FEMA Re-education camp for you! You didn't build that, you stole it from hard working Americans and you need to give it back, 38% per year.

LadyJazzer wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: Yet once again you choose to resort to creating dishonest straw man arguments rather than address the topic directly. I believe, as Pope Francis described, the growing inequality in the incomes between the one percent and the working class is a societal problem. That this inequality has occurred, not because of any prolific increase in the work habits of the wealthiest, but to gaming the financial and tax codes. That the policies favoring increasing the wealth of the few at the harm to those at the lower end of the economic strata do not follow the teachings of Christ.

Obviously, the pope hasn't heard of the ministries of the "Jesus-wants-you-to-be-rich...Just-send-us-money-and-we'll-tell-you-how" Christian-Capitalism gang...Oh, folks like Jimmy Swaggert, Robert Tilton, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Jim Bakker, ad nauseum...

They don' need no steenkin' po' people touching their $3000 suits, or dirtying up the runways for their private jets. The pope is just misinformed...But I'm sure the Club For Growth, and Heritage Foundation can set him right...

(Too bad about that condemnation of Paul Ryan by the Catholic Church for his "non-Christian" interpretations of Catholic teachings...)

This thread has suddenly seen a whole bunch of leftists signing on to the authority of the Catholic Pope. I suspect you'll all be getting together with our local pro-life group and protesting in front of a abortion clinic?

Nah... I didn't think so. Don't tell me you're being dishonest and bowing to the Pontiff on here just so you have another outrage of the day to bash conservatives? Yea... I think so!!!

Cafeteria non-Catholics! I will have the wealth envy, but no thanks to the anti-homosexuality, anti-women priests, & anti-birth control.

These lefties... what an effing bunch of hypocrites. Amazing that they can sleep with themselves.