Climate Change has no link to tornado's - OK. or anyplace

21 May 2013 15:37 #21 by Something the Dog Said
There is actually a very strong case that can be made that climate change had a direct effect on the ferocity of the tornado (FYI, I am currently about 50 miles from Moore OK). Oklahoma is the tinderbox for tornadic activity due to to its geographical location, where cooler air from the north and west meet up with the warm moist air from the Gulf of Mexico. It is this confluence that creates ground zero for tornadic activity. The air from the Gulf of Mexico has become warmer and moister, i.e., more energy is transferred into the storm. The instability from climate change may only be an increase in the range of 5 - 10%, but that translates to an increase in damage of up to 33%, which is huge.

This is discussed in an interesting article in Scientific American, with an interview with a scientist from NCAR.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -tornadoes

It is the combination of temperature and moisture. The vertical temperature structure of the atmosphere is a critical ingredient: adding more heat and moisture adds buoyancy to the lowest levels. The moisture part comes in mainly when the air starts to condense, giving up latent heat in the process. That heat, which came from the original heat used to evaporate the moisture, adds to the buoyancy.


So it may be true that climate change does not affect the frequency of tornadoes or other weather patterns, it is true that climate change is affecting the ferocity of tornadoes, hurricanes, droughts, floods, etc. as we are seeing. This is our brave new world.

"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown

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21 May 2013 16:00 #22 by Rick

Something the Dog Said wrote: This is our brave new world.

Or it's just the same old world which is still not fully understood by any man or woman.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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21 May 2013 16:09 #23 by Something the Dog Said

Rick wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: This is our brave new world.

Or it's just the same old world which is still not fully understood by any man or woman.

Yet many of us are trying to learn more about this world of ours every day. (which begs the question, do we really exist or are we simply figments of Science Chics imagination?)

"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown

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21 May 2013 16:17 #24 by Reverend Revelant

Something the Dog Said wrote:

Rick wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: This is our brave new world.

Or it's just the same old world which is still not fully understood by any man or woman.

Yet many of us are trying to learn more about this world of ours every day. (which begs the question, do we really exist or are we simply figments of Science Chics imagination?)


Let's try this one more time...

Dr. Marshall Shepherd, the president of the American Meteorological Society and someone who is not shy about taking on climate skeptics, put it this way in a tweet: Climate change is real issue but can we not dilute the issue with that right now. No links to tornadoes.

http://science.time.com/2013/05/21/tornado/


and in reference to the congresscritter...

Science Chic wrote: ... And while he's incorrect about the tornadoes


Case closed.

Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD

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21 May 2013 16:30 #25 by Something the Dog Said
I get that you have learned how to cut and paste. However, your cut and paste from a tweet from weatherman does not counter the science. Did you even read his tweet? He stated that climate change is the real issue, but asked not to dilute the impact of the tornado with discussions at this time. He agreed that climate change does affect the ferocity of the tornadoes and other weather conditions.

"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown

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21 May 2013 16:35 #26 by Reverend Revelant

Something the Dog Said wrote: I get that you have learned how to cut and paste. However, your cut and paste from a tweet from weatherman does not counter the science. Did you even read his tweet? He stated that climate change is the real issue, but asked not to dilute the impact of the tornado with discussions at this time. He agreed that climate change does affect the ferocity of the tornadoes and other weather conditions.


And you don't agree with him?

Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD

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21 May 2013 16:40 #27 by Reverend Revelant

Something the Dog Said wrote: There is actually a very strong case that can be made that climate change had a direct effect on the ferocity of the tornado (FYI, I am currently about 50 miles from Moore OK). Oklahoma is the tinderbox for tornadic activity due to to its geographical location, where cooler air from the north and west meet up with the warm moist air from the Gulf of Mexico. It is this confluence that creates ground zero for tornadic activity. The air from the Gulf of Mexico has become warmer and moister, i.e., more energy is transferred into the storm. The instability from climate change may only be an increase in the range of 5 - 10%, but that translates to an increase in damage of up to 33%, which is huge.

This is discussed in an interesting article in Scientific American, with an interview with a scientist from NCAR.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -tornadoes

It is the combination of temperature and moisture. The vertical temperature structure of the atmosphere is a critical ingredient: adding more heat and moisture adds buoyancy to the lowest levels. The moisture part comes in mainly when the air starts to condense, giving up latent heat in the process. That heat, which came from the original heat used to evaporate the moisture, adds to the buoyancy.


So it may be true that climate change does not affect the frequency of tornadoes or other weather patterns, it is true that climate change is affecting the ferocity of tornadoes, hurricanes, droughts, floods, etc. as we are seeing. This is our brave new world.


I get that you have learned how to cut and paste.

Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD

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21 May 2013 18:08 #28 by Reverend Revelant
I guess according to Dog... these are just more stupid weatherman...

At the time NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory, under the direction of Martin Hoerling, assessed whether the warming climate had affected the 2011 severe weather season in general, and specifically tornado activity.

They reported:

Neither the time series of thermodynamic nor dynamic variables suggests the presence of a discernible trend for April conditions during the last 30 years; any small trend that may exist would be statistically insignificant relative to the intensity of yearly fluctuations. A change in the mean climate properties that are believed to be particularly relevant to major destructive tornado events has thus not been detected for April, at least during the last 30 years. So far, we have not been able to link any of the major causes of the tornado outbreak to global warming. Barring a detection of change, a claim of attribution (to human impacts) is thus problematic, although it does not exclude that a future change in such environmental conditions may occur as anthropogenic greenhouse gas forcing increases.


Translation: There is no evidence at this time to link present tornado activity to climate change.

http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2013/05/is ... oes-worse/


Silly... stupid... NOAA. :sarcasm:

Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD

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21 May 2013 19:34 #29 by Something the Dog Said
Thanks, that cut and paste supported my position that climate change, while not necessarily changing the frequency of weather conditions, does affect the ferocity of those conditions through the increased energy.

"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown

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21 May 2013 19:50 #30 by Reverend Revelant

Something the Dog Said wrote: Thanks, that cut and paste supported my position that climate change, while not necessarily changing the frequency of weather conditions, does affect the ferocity of those conditions through the increased energy.


English is evidently not your first language... the statement was simple... Neither the time series of thermodynamic nor dynamic variables suggests the presence of a discernible trend for April conditions during the last 30 years; any small trend that may exist would be statistically insignificant relative to the intensity of yearly fluctuations. [/b][/i]

There... I made it BIGGER for you.

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