Holder runs into roadblocks on off-the-record meetings

Rick wrote:

archer wrote: Here we go again... If it weren't for the Liberals this would be a lovely message board. I'm sure the dissension here is all the liberals fault. And all you conservatives just want is for us all to get along and sing happy songs... And all it would take for that to happen is for all the liberals to agree that the conservatives are always right. I think you all need a reality check..... or your own board.

You know archer, I sent you a pretty long PM back in January appoligizing for any past insults or harsh words I've directed toward you. I made the attempt to be friends, or at least friendly. I'm quite certain that if not for your buddy LJ, there would be a chance for that happening. But you have become "LJ Lite" imo... not willing to speak her sh$tty language, but always there to back her up and blast me since she's to much of a coward to speak to me herself. So you just "keep doin what yer doin".

I made the attempt, I won't make that mistake again.

This is just an observation on my part, but I would not classify how archer has replied to anyone here as "blasting" them. She doesn't go into diatribes, scream in all caps, or call names over and over again. I see her disagreeing and that's it. I understand that emotions can run high very quickly and reading what's written without body language context taken more personally than is meant because I've certainly been guilty of that as well, so I just wanted to point that out. I see several comments from many posters that there are "personal attacks" happening and honestly most of those I just don't see as personal attacks - there are snarky disagreements, sure, but personal attacks? No.

All in all, I just don't view what's written here as "harsh", not compared to comments I read on other blogs and news sites. I do see an unnecessary amount of calling people out by name and addressing them instead of the topic at hand which makes it less possible to have good debate.

Rick wrote: This isn't gloating Bob, this is PISSED OFF! I have liberal friends and a liberal parent who I will NOT talk politics with... there is no upside. So, in order to keep my head from exploding, I vent here and look for justification for what's happening with our government. When I first decided to post on this board, I had this fantasy of a civil back and forth discussion... that devolved into a mental punching bag which now gives an alternative to pissing off my friends and family.

I appreciate the concern, but I don't care who I piss off anymore. I've tried over and over and over to bring civility here and it's just not possible

Not trying to single you out Rick, but your statement contradicts itself so I'm going to use it for my lesson. The definition of the word vent implies that civility isn't the desired outcome. You have definitely demonstrated a repeated effort to have good discussions for which I am grateful, and you've admitted that you've let things get to you and posted things you've regretted - it's happened to us all. What's important is to not take anything said here personally because it absolutely is possible to have civil debate. chickaree does it all the time, so does LOL, and me, and 2wlady, and Mary Scott, and many many others. But those posts do not solicit emotional responses so they don't have the lasting memory impact that the posters who have extreme views and who post forcefully do. It's way too easy to blame the one or two whom we view as "the worst", because we forget how bad others were who've absolutely demonstrated that they were trolls in the past and who've already left and if the one or two who we view as the worst now were to leave, then the next person down the line would become the scapegoat - the line would constantly be re-drawn. It's not that it's the fault of others that we can't have civil discussion, it's because we ourselves don't control our own emotional responses to what's written and reply back in ways that we later regret.

The other issue is that it's human nature to reply to the easy stuff, the stuff that doesn't require much consideration but only a quick, gut-level reply. I was hoping, but didn't really expect much even as posting it, for more of a discussion in my Contradictions, Connections, and Tension from Joss Whedon thread because that topic completely and directly addresses how we interact with one another here. I posted it knowing that it is a topic that most will avoid because it does not lend itself to a one-off response, yet I won't give up trying those kinds of topics anyway. It requires us to face ourselves and how we react to others, and what the root of our anger truly is (and it lies within ourselves and our feelings of uncomfortableness at having ties and things in common with those we dislike).

It always comes back to you get the response you want by first giving that level of response out yourself, over and over, regardless of how many times the replies come back not the way you'd prefer because it takes time, and an understanding that some people will never be capable of giving better responses (whether due to ability or due to conscience willingness). But not letting it get to you personally is paramount, because it really does come down to once you do that, let it pass right through you, it gets easier and easier to not let it bother you at all.

And Bob made an excellent point that I'd like to say thanks for - not everyone who reads these threads posts comments here, or is even a registered member - consider tailoring your response for a silent audience and imagine that you are trying to convince them of your viewpoint. When the other side is posting weak arguments, or getting personal instead of debating the topic, it only makes your own argument that much more compelling and convincing, and that's why we post isn't it? To convince others that our beliefs are worthy of accepting? If a poster is only here to bash others, then they are a troll and no one will ever take them seriously - remember that those reading will figure that out and take the high road yourself, then your voice gains weight. If all you do is bash right back, then you've lost your opportunity to convince others to accept your beliefs.

Message boards aren't for long, deeply thoughtful, meaning of life conversations (though more of them would be awesome!), especially message boards in which politics is included as a topic of discussion. But this site is about much more than just politics too - we have more event information posted than any other source up here, did you know that? We've got more nonprofits who post here, both Chambers of Commerce, and we've got more advertisers than any other online site up here and that's saying a lot considering that we don't quite have the traffic/readership that older more established sites do yet - and it's because of what this site brings to the community. And that's due to you guys - the businesses that I go talk to like what they read here more than anywhere else and they know that this site will eventually be the place to be. If you haven't checked the rest of it out recently, go wander and post elsewhere. It might help give a bigger perspective of what this site is about, rather than the myopic arguments happening in one forum only. And if you have any suggestions for improvements, please let us know - we're always looking to do it bigger and better and get more people engaged!

Sorry, I went longer than I expected, but I hope it helps. Seriously, thank you to all of you, you may not realize it but this site is growing and is well-thought of in the community and that's largely due to you being here.