Comment about this site/forum....

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Rockdoc Franz wrote: Interesting comments. Would you care to elaborate the "Closed society" observations and what you see as clique stuff?

My comments were meant as constructive criticism so please don't get defensive.

I don't want to be put in the middle of something I have no part in.

But there does seem to me many posts on this site that refer to old grudges and "sides" being taken and this new site as some sort of opportunity to hash them out publically.

As someone who doesn't even know who is on whose side, and frankly doesn't want to know, that can make me feel like an outsider of a closed society.

AspenValley wrote: I am enjoying the energy here, and I think this site has a fair chance of offering a strong alternative to Pinecam.

But.

I am not so much enjoying the rehashing of apparently old grudges dragged here from there and I am not so much enjoying the fairly relentless "inside jokes" and cliquey behavior here, which seems to me to be coming on even thicker than it does on Pinecam.

Even though I've been a longtime and prolific poster on Pinecam, I never really enjoyed or wanted to get too involved in the "clique" stuff and I'm hoping this site isn't just going to be a rehash of all that is wrong over there. But after looking at this site for a couple of weeks and posting for only one, I'm already getting the feeling that this is even more of a "closed society" than Pinecam.

That may not be the intent, but that's what is coming across from the most frequent posters.

I think sometimes when people are involved in building something, they do tend to develope a closeness that is shared only by them. I'm betting that I am guilty of doing as you posted and I apologize. I sure didn't mean to do that. I will watch myself more closely and if you see me regressing, please let me know.

I agree that the rehashing of old crap is no fun and I am pretty tired of it too. Pain perceived is dealt with in many ways and for each person must find their own way to peace and forgiveness. I commend the intent to make nice by the poster of those threads and I hope that is a sign of things to come, that peace will follow and prevail.

I appreciate your insight and your taking the time to post your observations. This is a young site and one that I hope grows to encompass the community in a positive and helpful way. It's a good place with many good people and ideas. I love the freedom to express our thoughts, even if they are against the way things are done. I love that the voices and concerned are heard and discussed. Communication, building our community and cohesiveness; that's what this is about.

Thank you again!

AspenValley wrote:

Wayne Harrison wrote: Was it the picnic where everyone who posts here was invited or the peacekeeping dinner offered by a 285Bound member to people she's had disagreements with that gave you that "clique" feeling?

Actually, you're not far off. I can't imagine myself feeling comfie at a "peacekeeping" dinner over a lot of old baggage I have no part in.

I love making new friends but what I keep hearing here repeatedly isn't about new friends but about old grudges.

But where was the picnic for everyone who posts here mentioned? I'd be up for that!

And we are talking about maybe getting together before that too. Please don't take this personal, it is just information. I have been on here pretty much since the begining and there has been less than 1% of the posts that are about grudges. And it has been explained why many of us who were cut off and banned abruptly at we needed to have our side heard. Including me. I know I had my thread of venting but I am done. I know that certain people just aren't worth another minute of my time. I noticed them talking about the arguing over here on PC. it is so funny. Less than 1% of all threads have even mentioned PC and it is fading fast. Then you have the pom pom cheerleader for controversy who never posts but jumps in on this thread to agree with what you said.

Sorry, AV but other than a few threads which are done now, I am just not seeing it. I think this site is 100% more positive than the other one. Even look at the topics in the Ring compared to how hateful the Study got. It is so nice over here and we really talk out our differences and we can actually debate our differing political views without Mods telling us how to talk to each other. Sure it has gotten heated, but we are adults and they treat us like that here and isn't it amazing how we have all been able to work things out without the threads getting locked or deleted. This isn't meant against you AV. I just don't think it is near as negative and there aren't as many grudge threads as people are portraying. And the haters that come over here can cheer all they want but it won't make it true. But if there is anything any of us can do to make you feel more comfortable here let us know. You know that this site is all about listening to people and trying to make things better.

AspenValley wrote:

Wayne Harrison wrote: Was it the picnic where everyone who posts here was invited or the peacekeeping dinner offered by a 285Bound member to people she's had disagreements with that gave you that "clique" feeling?

Actually, you're not far off. I can't imagine myself feeling comfie at a "peacekeeping" dinner over a lot of old baggage I have no part in.

I love making new friends but what I keep hearing here repeatedly isn't about new friends but about old grudges.

But where was the picnic for everyone who posts here mentioned? I'd be up for that!

AV,your inability to feel "comfie" at a "peacekeeping" dinner is certainly understandable, but your perception that this dinner was an open invitation is wrong. This is not a "peacekeeping dinner" to meet and make new friends, it is an offer to break bread with specific individuals with whom there have been tense misunderstandings for far too long. It is a major attempt to resolve and put to rest those issues with an eye to move forward in a positive direction. Whether or not it will take place will depend upon the individuals involved willingness to achieve resolution.

There are many other threads available to you. Looking for friends in the ring is not where i would recommend to start. Did you not receive a warm welcome from at least some of the members here? Have you attempted to engage any of those members in dialogue? There are many many very positive threads offering informational, thoughtful, researched, and expert exchanges on a plethora of topics. I think you may find the true spirit of this site there and people with whom you may wish to form friendships.

The picnic is indeed an icebreaker planed for August. More information will be posted as we draw closer to the date. I sincerely hope you will find my clarification helpful, appreciate the dinner invite as the true spirit of 285Bound, a place where we try to build community by going the extra mile to resolve issues old and new.

I hope my explanation proves helpful and not more confusing.

Sounds like a case of "does not play well with others" to me.

AspenValley wrote:

Rockdoc Franz wrote: Interesting comments. Would you care to elaborate the "Closed society" observations and what you see as clique stuff?

My comments were meant as constructive criticism so please don't get defensive.

I don't want to be put in the middle of something I have no part in.

But there does seem to me many posts on this site that refer to old grudges and "sides" being taken and this new site as some sort of opportunity to hash them out publically.

As someone who doesn't even know who is on whose side, and frankly doesn't want to know, that can make me feel like an outsider of a closed society.

AV no offense take. I'm a scientist, so I ask questions to gain a clearer understanding. Constructive criticism is always appreciated. I agree with lopingalong. The last thing we intensionally or unintentionally want to do is be cliquish. Quite the opposite. I appreciate your explanation and certainly can identify with your perspective. I quess we will have to change that.

LopingAlong wrote: I think sometimes when people are involved in building something, they do tend to develop a closeness that is shared only by them. I'm betting that I am guilty of doing as you posted and I apologize. I sure didn't mean to do that. I will watch myself more closely and if you see me regressing, please let me know.

I agree that the rehashing of old crap is no fun and I am pretty tired of it too. Pain perceived is dealt with in many ways and for each person must find their own way to peace and forgiveness. I commend the intent to make nice by the poster of those threads and I hope that is a sign of things to come, that peace will follow and prevail.

I appreciate your insight and your taking the time to post your observations. This is a young site and one that I hope grows to encompass the community in a positive and helpful way. It's a good place with many good people and ideas. I love the freedom to express our thoughts, even if they are against the way things are done. I love that the voices and concerned are heard and discussed. Communication, building our community and cohesiveness; that's what this is about.

Thank you again!

I realize it's only a couple of posts down from what LopingAlong wrote here, but it so perfectly expressed my thoughts as well I figured it was worth repeating. Also, most folks I've run into here have all expressed the "please let me know if I'm being a jerk or not letting something go" sentiment and - I find this most interesting of all - when that has actually has happened here all but a couple have expressed appreciation and let it go. There are going to be growing pains with anything new but it's all developing and in a good direction. I also find it interesting that some of the folks I had completely tuned out over at Pinecam - usually because of political disagreement - are the exact same folks over here who I've had good conversation with and have learned quite a bit. (Granted, I may still think they're still way too far right and therefore totally wrong, but I'm still learning a lot! ) People tend to respond in kind if you respectfully ask questions rather than charging in with an opening attack. There will likely always be people looking to start (or continue) a ruckus, but it's pretty simple to avoid threads or areas if you want to - I did it for years at Pinecam and continue to do so. (Nope, I don't even lurk in the study anymore - decided I'm too thin-skinned and ok with that.)

Finally, I also apologize for any perceived cliqueishness (no clue on spelling that one) if I was the cause. I have personal history with some folks here that extends to way back before the advent of Pinecam and may occasionally speak in "code" without realizing how it could come off to others. I don't think it's anyone's intent here to make anyone feel unwelcome or like an "outsider." I've found the goal here to be the exact opposite.

And by the way, in case you haven't read through all of the threads in The Ring, you should know that The Viking is officially a poopy-head. But he's growing on me.