Kate wrote: So, you reject factcheck.org based on a perceived bias because it's a project funded by the University of Pennsylvania? Why does that make it unreliable? Because you think that all Universities are liberal?
From the factcheck web site:
About Us
Our Mission
We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.
FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels.
Our Funding
Prior to fiscal 2010, we were supported entirely by three sources: funds from the APPC’s own resources (specifically an endowment created in 1993 by the Annenberg Foundation at the direction of the late Walter Annenberg, and a 1995 grant by the Annenberg Foundation to fund APPC’s Washington, D.C., base); additional funds from the Annenberg Foundation; and grants from the Flora Family Foundation. We do not seek and have never accepted, directly or indirectly, any funds from corporations, unions, partisan organizations or advocacy groups.
In 2010 we began accepting donations from individual members of the public for the first time, responding to many unsolicited offers of support from our subscribers. We launched our first public appeal for donations in April 2010.
At that time we also decided to disclose our finances in greater detail, so that our readers may judge for themselves whether or not any of those individual donations could influence us.
Our policy is to disclose the identity of any individual donor giving $1,000 or more. We also disclose the total amount, average amount and number of individual donations of under $1,000.
They even disclose their financing for your perusal.
If you think they are wrong, then state why they are wrong. Poke holes in their arguments, provide your own proof. Just saying "They're wrong because I have doubts" doesn't cut it in a rational discussion.
I'm starting to think this is a losing discussion for us both (or all four of us.) None of you (Major Bean, Outdoor338 or Nmysys) will provide any evidence as to why you think the certificate is a fake. When given actual facts, you then turn up your nose at the source without rational reason. What will it take for you to believe that the birth certificate is real? There's been articles about it, affidavits, eyewitness accounts of the authenticity of the seal, government officials stating that is is real and acceptable. Do you need to hold it in your own hands to accept that it's real?
I feel like Sisyphus.
You probably are, nobody seems to ever be open to changing their mind.
To make this a rational discussion requires both sides to be rational. You seem to be so satisfied that what you are reading is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, no matter what we are saying. The problem with that is that there ARE unanswered questions that YOU and others who want to believe to be true, can't make them be true, by wishes alone.
Why are there unanswered questions??? Because Barack Obama will not answer them. He leaves them to be answered by others, like you. He has spent an awful lot of money to prevent from having to answer those questions.
Why do 25% of the American people believe that he is hiding something? Because they are racists? Maybe some are, I don't know, I am not. That can be argued by those who will make comments without any substantiation of any kind, but it does not make it so.
Instead of answering my earlier questions you did what every Liberal does. You made a statement about how ridiculous my assumptions are. That is not what you called rational debate. Sorry!! It is apparent that no one will change their minds without absolute proof. Who is going to provide that absolute proof. You? Me? Why not Barack Obama??
I don't mean to be insulting, Nmysys. Please don't think that I'm belittling you in any way, but here's the non-rational part. You have dismissed factcheck.org because you believe it to be liberal. You haven't provided any evidence that it is liberal, just that it is a project run by a University. I would evaluate (and perhaps accept) your premise that it's liberal if you could provide consistent examples of liberal bias in what factcheck.org has published, but you haven't done that. All you've stated is an opinion, which you expect to discredit the evidence presented.
Take their birth certificate argument. Dissect it with other facts, prove it wrong. I challenge you to do this, since the majority of Americans, and the press, believe that the evidence presented by factcheck.org is correct.
Kate, then I challenge you to find any doctor, any nurse who was in the delivery room when obama was born HI, show me any medical bills from his birth..there isn't any...
Do you have medical bills from your own birth? Can you find a doctor or nurse that was in the roome when you were born? No? I think you were born in Ethiopia then.
I do have them TM, I was born in the US in a military hospital..not like your pal obama, where are these docs and nurses who assisted in the birth of your messiah? Oh, obama messiah had help from a mid-wife in another country..that's right :woo hoo:
outdoor338 wrote: Kate, then I challenge you to find any doctor, any nurse who was in the delivery room when obama was born HI, show me any medical bills from his birth..there isn't any...
That only proves that there aren't any records. It does not prove that Obama was not born in Hawaii.
Donald Trump, who stirred up this whole crock again, lied when he said,
A couple of other things, when I was born in Jamaica hospital in Queens, when I was born there are records saying how much my parents paid for the doctor, who the doctor was, what room number I was born in, all of these things that I have.
In fact,
We also found that Trump was just blowing hot air when he claimed that Jamaica Hospital Medical Center in Queens has detailed records of his birth, including "how much my parents paid for the doctor." Our researcher Michael Morse asked a hospital spokesman about that. What he was told is that any records of a birth from that long ago were probably destroyed many years ago, and even if they still existed the hospital could not release them to outsiders because of HIPAA. The hospital’s policy is to retain records of any child until age 21.
Michael Hinck, Jamaica Hospital Medical Center, spokesman: It’s unlikely that the information will still exist.
outdoor338 wrote: I do have them TM, I was born in the US in a military hospital..not like your pal obama, where are these docs and nurses who assisted in the birth of your messiah? Oh, obama messiah had help from a mid-wife in another country..that's right :woo hoo:
Well, there ya go.....that is as good an argument for government health care as I have seen, the government obviously keeps better records than private hospitals.
kate....Obama could show up on Outdoor's door step (or nmysys, or major bean) with each and every document they have claimed they need to answer their questions and it would not satisfy them.
I believe this is why Obama has not given in to these crazy demands from the birthers....nothing will ever be good enough for them, so why even bother to play their game? Nothing more is needed to convince congress, or the judiciary, or most of the American people that he is legally the president of the United States. Not to mention the fact that the longer the birthers drag this out, the more they make the conservatives look like petulant fools. There is a lot to be said for that.
:woo hoo: 
