Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony

Kate wrote: What about those who do not believe in a supreme being? Should they be forced to endure listening to the belief systems of others?

I'm having a hard time understanding why you think this is a big issue. Why not just refrain from religious observations in all public assemblies - especially those on public property and in public schools?

OK, did you just read what you wrote? If someone doesn't believe in something then we must silence everyone else from what they believe? Simple solution. They don't have to take part. Just like Obama doesn't have to put his hand over his heart if he doesn't believe in Patriotism and respect for this country and the flag. So the fact that I don't believe in Obama and neither does half of this country, why should we be forced to endure listening to the belief systems of him? And what about protestors of the wars? I don't agree with them so can we sue to tell them what they can and can't say? That argument makes no sense.

There are a lot of things that I don't believe in but I choose not to listen to them rather than sue them to try and take away their First Amendment rights. That is a Liberal thing. Trying to silence those who they don't agree with rather than just realizing that there is not one subject or issue in the world that we will all agree on. So rather than try and step on others freedoms, just exercise your own freedom and don't participate. Not a big deal. And 'irreparable harm' to this kid? THAT is why the legal system needs to be reformed. That is a bunch of crap!

The Viking wrote:

Kate wrote: What about those who do not believe in a supreme being? Should they be forced to endure listening to the belief systems of others?

I'm having a hard time understanding why you think this is a big issue. Why not just refrain from religious observations in all public assemblies - especially those on public property and in public schools?

OK, did you just read what you wrote? If someone doesn't believe in something then we must silence everyone else from what they believe? Simple solution. They don't have to take part. Just like Obama doesn't have to put his hand over his heart if he doesn't believe in Patriotism and respect for this country and the flag. So the fact that I don't believe in Obama and neither does half of this country, why should we be forced to endure listening to the belief systems of him? And what about protestors of the wars? I don't agree with them so can we sue to tell them what they can and can't say? That argument makes no sense.

There are a lot of things that I don't believe in but I choose not to listen to them rather than sue them to try and take away their First Amendment rights. That is a Liberal thing. Trying to silence those who they don't agree with rather than just realizing that there is not one subject or issue in the world that we will all agree on. So rather than try and step on others freedoms, just exercise your own freedom and don't participate. Not a big deal. And 'irreparable harm' to this kid? THAT is why the legal system needs to be reformed. That is a bunch of crap!

I agree that the "irreperable harm" phrase is absurd and unprovable, and trying to censor phrases from the ceremony is weird, but i would ask you to look at it from another angle. What if you don't believe in a supreme being, yet at a public ceremony on public property for a public education ceremony (funded by tax payers) someone elses religion was forced in your face? How would you feel? It would be a bit difficult to "just not listen" or "just not pay attention to the prayers" if it was happening over and over.

You know, the Conifer High School graduation had no religious words, no prayer, no thanking God or anything remotely religious. Nobody prayed, nobody thanked God, nobody invoked anything and it was a wonderful event.

I still don't understand why you think it is acceptable to inject the majority religious belief system into a publicly funded event? What compelling reasons can you give to convince me that your religion should be part of a publicly funded program?

Kate wrote: From your vehement objection to this, Viking, I take it that you think it is acceptable for the majority religion represented at the ceremony on public property at a publicly funded school to dictate what religion should be observed?

The school is not trying to dictate what religion should be observed. That is a straw man.

The issue here is freedom of speech vs state sponsored censorship.

If everyone was required to say a prayer, that would be "forced in your face".

Requiring someone to not say something that would offend you is censorship.

neptunechimney wrote:

Kate wrote: From your vehement objection to this, Viking, I take it that you think it is acceptable for the majority religion represented at the ceremony on public property at a publicly funded school to dictate what religion should be observed?

The school is not trying to dictate what religion should be observed. That is a straw man.

The issue here is freedom of speech vs state sponsored censorship.

I disagree. Any religion that is allowed to be practiced at a taxpayer funded event could be viewed as endorsement of that religion. Why do you even want to allow religion at a school graduation? FOR EXAMPLE: Why would Christianity be allowed, but prayers to Egyptian God Ra not be allowed? Would you be willing to allow prayers to Allah or Druids instead of to Jesus?

I guess if one feels strongly enough about it you send your kids to a religious school and you can be assured someone will pray at graduation.

neptunechimney wrote: If everyone was required to say a prayer, that would be "forced in your face".

Requiring someone to not say something that would offend you is censorship.

Once again, I disagree with your interpretation. Sitting at a taxpayer funded graduation ceremony and having to listen to an invocation prayer and a benediction prayer is indeed forced in my face. How would you feel if you were forced to sit through a Wiccan chant at the same ceremony?

Why even let religion into a publicly funded ceremony? There are plenty of other places to pray and hold religious ceremonies. Why do you want to force it on others in this setting?

Kate wrote:

neptunechimney wrote: If everyone was required to say a prayer, that would be "forced in your face".

Requiring someone to not say something that would offend you is censorship.

Once again, I disagree with your interpretation. Sitting at a taxpayer funded graduation ceremony and having to listen to an invocation prayer and a benediction prayer is indeed forced in my face. How would you feel if you were forced to sit through a Wiccan chant at the same ceremony?

Why even let religion into a publicly funded ceremony? There are plenty of other places to pray and hold religious ceremonies. Why do you want to force it on others in this setting?

Bored. Yes we interpret this differently. I prefer to err on the side of freedom of speech, not on the side of censorship.

neptunechimney wrote:

Kate wrote:

neptunechimney wrote: If everyone was required to say a prayer, that would be "forced in your face".

Requiring someone to not say something that would offend you is censorship.

Once again, I disagree with your interpretation. Sitting at a taxpayer funded graduation ceremony and having to listen to an invocation prayer and a benediction prayer is indeed forced in my face. How would you feel if you were forced to sit through a Wiccan chant at the same ceremony?

Why even let religion into a publicly funded ceremony? There are plenty of other places to pray and hold religious ceremonies. Why do you want to force it on others in this setting?

Bored. Yes we interpret this differently. I prefer to err on the side of freedom of speech, not on the side of censorship.

I prefer to err on the side of not establishing a government religion.

The difference as I see it is you have the ability to pray silently to whatever God you want at any public ceremony you want.....as does everyone else at that ceremony. However, if a prayer or benediction is said, the people at the ceremony who do not believe in that God have no choice but to sit through listening to someone praise a God they do not believe in, or risk being really rude and have to walk out.