Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony

Soulshiner wrote: What would happen if some valedictorian offered a Satanic prayer or said "Hail Satan" instead of "Amen"? Would everyone just tell their kid to just ignore it?

Think my son would probably bust up laughin'! rofllol

navycpo7 wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: Navy, without trying to get into a hassle about it, the difference is that schools, and school events are considered "public property", and those morons from Westboro are very careful to do their protesting on private property. There IS a distinction. Now, personally, I don't care if someone is so helpless that they feel like they cannot survive without a public-display of their religiosity. (Since one can actually pray anytime, anywhere, then the issue is not whether they can pray, but whether they can be SEEN praying and therefore appear to be religious to everyone else... Seems a bit narcissistic to me, but "whatever melts your butter." ....)

But as has been pointed out here more than a few times, the issue is also that if one is going to foist a "Christian" prayer on the whole crowd, then why not a chant to Allah; or the Flying Spaghetti Monster; or a Buddhist chant? Would that be okay?

Personally, I think it's much ado about nothing... But the distinction here is "public" vs. "private" property... (Which is the same brouhaha we go through every December when it gets crazy over the whole "nativity scenes on public property" silliness. After awhile, you'd think it wouldn't happen every year, but you can set your watch by it...

LJ as I agree with your statement about the public thing and private thing, Westboro does thier protesting on Public property. That is why for alot of thier protest they have to get a permit. That is also why the Freedom Rider, various Veteran organization etc show up to drown them out. So here is another senario for all of you. ( Just for info though I would not care who what kind of prayer it was. If you do not care to it then don't listen, I read it on here also and I agree, you deal with what you believe or do not believe and go with that.) But The US Military is public money, we serve the People of the United States. Tax payer money pays the salaries. Now granted most military installations are not public property. They are restricted access due to the nature of the installation. But we have military chaplains, and for most of the ceremonies in the Military there is a Prayer. On one of the ships I served on, we had morning Prayer over the 1MC(shipboard annoucing system). You were not required to listen to it. You could do your own prayer of your religion etc.

Images of communist propaganda being barked over a bullhorn loudspeaker comes to mind, like the reeducation camp in Red Dawn.

Kate wrote:

Vomitus wrote: So no one answered my question from yesterday: If a student preseident (or other student) or faculty member started their speech with a prayer would this be against this policy and if so, why?

Interesting how you demand answers to your questions, yet refuse to answer questions posed to you, both in this thread and in others. Regardless, I am not sure what would legally happen to the person that started their speech with a prayer. If the ruling that was originally handed down prohibiting prayer and certain words were in place, then yes, it would appear that it would go against the judge's ruling. That much seems pretty clear. Not sure what would be the penalty should that happen.

I answered yours, now would you please answer mine?

Why do you feel it necessary to inject religion into a publicly funded graduation ceremony where none is required?

OMG!!! IT IS A QUICK PRAYER PEOPLE!! What does it last 30 seconds? Maybe 2 minutes? And THAT is injecting religion? THAT is trying to FORCE your beliefs on people? Are you FRICKEN kidding me??!!! You liberals are so easily offended and get your feeling hurt so easy!!! Over half of America doesn't believe anything Obama says and yet we have to listen to him and let him try and destroy this country. Is he FORCING his beliefs on me? He can talk all he wants but it isn't changing my beliefs! I just listen to him or not and then look at the facts and form my own beliefs and opinions. My life doesn't change because of what someone says. And no one is hurt over a simple prayer! I don't care if it is in a public or private event. It is ALL IN AMERICA!!! Where freedom of speech still reigns surpreme!! Why are there so many people in this country who allow little things to effect their life and feelings so greatly? That to me shows a serious sign of weakness and insecurity and they should not be allowed to try and alter other people's lives just because of their personal issues!

In England and Wales, the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states that all pupils in state schools must take part in a daily act of collective worship, unless their parents request that they be excused from attending

British ColumbiaPrior to 1944, in British Columbia, the Public Schools Act (1872) permitted the use of the Lord’s Prayer in opening or closing school. In 1944, the government of British Columbia amended the Public Schools Act to provide for compulsory Bible reading at the opening of the school day, to be followed by a compulsory recitation of the Lord’s Prayer.

Progressive Americans want to turn us into a third world country where it is a crime to pray in a school or government building.

The Viking wrote: In England and Wales, the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states that all pupils in state schools must take part in a daily act of collective worship, unless their parents request that they be excused from attending

British ColumbiaPrior to 1944, in British Columbia, the Public Schools Act (1872) permitted the use of the Lord’s Prayer in opening or closing school. In 1944, the government of British Columbia amended the Public Schools Act to provide for compulsory Bible reading at the opening of the school day, to be followed by a compulsory recitation of the Lord’s Prayer.

Progressive Americans want to turn us into a third world country where it is a crime to pray in a school or government building.

Where has anyone claimed it's a crime? Just cease and desist :thumbsup:

The Viking wrote:

Kate wrote:

Vomitus wrote: So no one answered my question from yesterday: If a student preseident (or other student) or faculty member started their speech with a prayer would this be against this policy and if so, why?

Interesting how you demand answers to your questions, yet refuse to answer questions posed to you, both in this thread and in others. Regardless, I am not sure what would legally happen to the person that started their speech with a prayer. If the ruling that was originally handed down prohibiting prayer and certain words were in place, then yes, it would appear that it would go against the judge's ruling. That much seems pretty clear. Not sure what would be the penalty should that happen.

I answered yours, now would you please answer mine?

Why do you feel it necessary to inject religion into a publicly funded graduation ceremony where none is required?

OMG!!! IT IS A QUICK PRAYER PEOPLE!! What does it last 30 seconds? Maybe 2 minutes? And THAT is injecting religion? THAT ie trying to FORCE your beliefs on people? Are you FRICKEN kidding me??!!! You lieberals are so easily offended and get your feeling hurt so easy!!! Over half of America doesn't believe anything Obama says and yet we have to listen to him and let him try and destroy this country. Is he FORSCING his beliefs on me? He can talk all he wants but it isn't changing my beliefs! I just listen to him or not and then look at the facts and form my own beliefs and opinions. My life doesn't change because of what someone says. And no one is hurt over a simple prayer! I don't care if it is in a public or private event. It is ALL IN AMERICA!!! Where freedom of speech still reigns surpreme!! Why are there so many people in this country who allow little things to effect their life and feelings so greatly? That to me shows a serious sign of weakness and insecurity and they should not be allowed to try and alter other people's lives just because of their personal issues!

That same logic can be used to argue against it. It's a quick prayer, so why does it need to be in the program? Why can't there be 15 seconds of silence to do the praying in? That seems more personal and appropriate to me. Why does it have to be that the crowd has to be totally involved? I've been to 4 HS graduations in the past few years in the middle of Nebraska farmland and none of them had any religious connotations what so ever. Zero. Guess what? No one complained either.

Why do people have to wear their religion on their sleeve, out in public for everyone to see? I thought people considered their religion as their most personal attribute. Public displays of it makes me think there is more to it than just worshiping their own personal deity. It seems more like showing off who's got Jesus more than their neighbors. It's attention grabbing and makes the real event, young people graduating and moving onto the next stage of their lives seem less important than making sure everyone worships Jesus in public and en masse.

archer wrote:

The Viking wrote: In England and Wales, the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 states that all pupils in state schools must take part in a daily act of collective worship, unless their parents request that they be excused from attending

British ColumbiaPrior to 1944, in British Columbia, the Public Schools Act (1872) permitted the use of the Lord’s Prayer in opening or closing school. In 1944, the government of British Columbia amended the Public Schools Act to provide for compulsory Bible reading at the opening of the school day, to be followed by a compulsory recitation of the Lord’s Prayer.

Progressive Americans want to turn us into a third world country where it is a crime to pray in a school or government building.

Where has anyone claimed it's a crime? Just cease and desist :thumbsup:

So let me ask this. What would happen if this moron judge's ruling would have stood? What would have happened if the girl and many in the school got up and prayed? What would they do to them or the school administration? What if they would just ignore this judge?

The Viking wrote: So let me ask this. What would happen if this moron judge's ruling would have stood? What would have happened if the girl and many in the school got up and prayed? What would they do to them or the school administration? What if they would just ignore this judge?

I don't really know, I figure the judge could have held them in contempt of court.....but even that is unlikely. This isn't really a biggie on my radar......I couldn't care less what they do in a Texas school, but I was amused by this thread where so much justification of religion in the schools is going on. I don't think religion belongs at any public event, but I don't usually get my way on this and it really doesn't bother me much either, much ado about nothing. FYI.....I am a Christian, but don't believe in putting it out there, my religion, or lack there of, is no one's business but my own.....I do wish everyone felt that way about theirs.

It's not about praying...(as I have said before)... It seems to be about being "seen" or "heard" praying by others. Rather narcissistic, having to make sure that others see you do it... I guess some feel the need to make sure that they put their religiosity on display. (Before they return to their decidedly un-Christian activities...)

The Viking wrote:

Kate wrote:

Vomitus wrote: So no one answered my question from yesterday: If a student preseident (or other student) or faculty member started their speech with a prayer would this be against this policy and if so, why?

Interesting how you demand answers to your questions, yet refuse to answer questions posed to you, both in this thread and in others. Regardless, I am not sure what would legally happen to the person that started their speech with a prayer. If the ruling that was originally handed down prohibiting prayer and certain words were in place, then yes, it would appear that it would go against the judge's ruling. That much seems pretty clear. Not sure what would be the penalty should that happen.

I answered yours, now would you please answer mine?

Why do you feel it necessary to inject religion into a publicly funded graduation ceremony where none is required?

OMG!!! IT IS A QUICK PRAYER PEOPLE!! What does it last 30 seconds? Maybe 2 minutes? And THAT is injecting religion? THAT is trying to FORCE your beliefs on people? Are you FRICKEN kidding me??!!! You liberals are so easily offended and get your feeling hurt so easy!!! Over half of America doesn't believe anything Obama says and yet we have to listen to him and let him try and destroy this country. Is he FORCING his beliefs on me? He can talk all he wants but it isn't changing my beliefs! I just listen to him or not and then look at the facts and form my own beliefs and opinions. My life doesn't change because of what someone says. And no one is hurt over a simple prayer! I don't care if it is in a public or private event. It is ALL IN AMERICA!!! Where freedom of speech still reigns surpreme!! Why are there so many people in this country who allow little things to effect their life and feelings so greatly? That to me shows a serious sign of weakness and insecurity and they should not be allowed to try and alter other people's lives just because of their personal issues!

OMG! YOU CAN'T SEEM TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD THAT THIS IS ABOUT RELIGION, NOT OBAMA!

Gosh, it feels good to shout. Why do you keep bringing up non-religious examples? We're talking about religion.

If you let a little prayer go into this ceremony, then what's next? Why not conduct an entire mass? Or a baptism by immersion right after they get their diploma? After all, if you don't like it, just don't look, right? Why stop at just a little prayer?

Here is a very very simple question for you, Viking, although I seriously doubt you will answer it, and it is the crux of the issue: Why do we need to even have any religion injected in taxpayer funded graduation ceremony? Why do we need to have a prayer? Can you give me a truthful argument with convincing rationale?