...just don't understand why some think that kids have the same rights in school that adults have outside of school.
What is troubling to me is that some seem to think that neither adults nor kids have any right to even mention religion in passing. I see nothing wrong with a student thanking his/her God/deity of choice/whatever in a graduation speech, in fact I appreciate it.
I agree that I don't want anyone forcing their religion down my throat, but I think that the opposition to religion in any form has gotten totally out of control and ridiculous.
Well, if I may be allowed my own hyperbole, it appears that some on the left are terrified that if they see a bowed head or hear an amen, they will be overcome with religious fever and start talking in tongues while lashing themselves with thorns.
...just don't understand why some think that kids have the same rights in school that adults have outside of school.
What is troubling to me is that some seem to think that neither adults nor kids have any right to even mention religion in passing. I see nothing wrong with a student thanking his/her God/deity of choice/whatever in a graduation speech, in fact I appreciate it.
I don't have a problem with that either.....what I think people have a problem with is not a student mentioning God in his/her speesh.....but having someone, including a student, specifically give a prayer.....that is including religion as part of the ceremony.....you know....the line in the program that says prayer....and some one is introduced as so-and-so will now lead us in prayer, I don't think that has any place in a public school graduation.....but I don't get too upset if it is there.
Religous Freedom is a two way street, not just one way, or your way. If you want to hear about you beliefs or indulge in your religion, do it in your house of worship or private gatherings not public places or gatherings.
Religous theolgy or dictatorial ways do not belong in our Goverment either. We have enought people wanting to take control and become the dictator of this contry, along with some religous groups wanting to brain wash us with their hearsay belief`s. I suppose it is like a lot of the dictatorial things happening now. Greed and control of the people.
The Viking wrote: I suffer irreparable harm every time Obama speaks so can we find a judge that will shut him up and tell him not to talk?? What the HELL is the nation coming to? THIS IS AMERICA PEOPLE!!! WAKE UP!!! THE FIRST AMENDMENT STILL EXISTS AND DOES NOT PROHIBIT PRAYER IN SCHOOLS!! (No matter how you followers of Satan try and spin it!)
I would be just fine listening to 20 different people praising 20 different Gods including Allah or Mother Nature. I'm pretty sure I would walk away unharmed and with no emotional trauma.....but maybe I was just raised to withstand such terrifying words.
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy
Wow, I can see it's time to renew my membership in Americans United for the Separation of Church & State--me being a Satan-follower and all.... (Of course, since "Satan" is a religious construct, that would require that I believe in religion in the first place...which I do not.)
Of course if the program included listening to 20 different people praising 20 different Gods including Allah or Mother Nature, there wouldn't be any time left for the actual program... It would just be a ridiculous orgy of competing religious ideas, and most people would rather stay home and watch TV.
Why not just leave the religious b.s out of a public ceremony?
Trouble wrote: Troubling isn't it that students don't leave their first amendment rights at the school house door? They are not "getting around" anything. They are simply exercising their first amendment rights.
They are getting by on a technicality, which is the opinion of the ACLJ web site that you posted. According to the Supreme Court decision in the case you cited, state sponsored (or school sponsored) prayer or religious activity is not allowed in a public school graduation ceremony.
Here's where they get around it: if the students just "spontaneously" start praying and it isn't led by a school official and it's not scheduled in the program, then it's not state sponsored. Get it? Very clever.
As far as losing or leaving their First Amendment rights, you should read the Supreme Court decision. Here's a paragraph where they address that specifically:
The First Amendment protects speech and religion by quite different mechanisms. Speech is protected by ensuring its full expression even when the government participates, for the very object of some of our most important speech is to persuade the government to adopt an idea as its own. Meese v. Keene, 481 U. S. 465, 480-481 (1987); see also Keller v. State Bar of California, 496 U. S. 1, 10-11 (1990); Abood v. Detroit Bd. of Ed., 431 U. S. 209 (1977). The method for protecting freedom of worship and freedom of conscience in religious matters is quite the reverse. In religious debate or expression the government is not a prime participant, for the Framers deemed religious establishment antithetical to the freedom of all. The Free Exercise Clause embraces a freedom of conscience and worship that has close parallels in the speech provisions of the First Amendment, but the Establishment Clause is a specific prohibition on forms of state intervention in religious affairs with no precise counterpart in the speech provisions. Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U. S. 1, 92-93, and n. 127 (1976) (per curiam). The explanation lies in the lesson of history that was and is the inspiration for the Establishment Clause, the lesson that in the hands of government what might begin as a tolerant expression of religious views may end in a policy to indoctrinate and coerce. A state-created orthodoxy puts at grave risk that freedom of belief and conscience which are the sole assurance that religious faith is real, not imposed.
...just don't understand why some think that kids have the same rights in school that adults have outside of school.
What is troubling to me is that some seem to think that neither adults nor kids have any right to even mention religion in passing. I see nothing wrong with a student thanking his/her God/deity of choice/whatever in a graduation speech, in fact I appreciate it.
I don't have a problem with that either.....what I think people have a problem with is not a student mentioning God in his/her speesh.....but having someone, including a student, specifically give a prayer.....that is including religion as part of the ceremony.....you know....the line in the program that says prayer....and some one is introduced as so-and-so will now lead us in prayer, I don't think that has any place in a public school graduation.....but I don't get too upset if it is there.
I don't have a problem with that, either, and agree with what Archer wrote. (Do I need to insert a "Yeah, that" emoticon?)
I'd still like an answer to this question, or even an acknowledgment that some of you don't want to answer it:
Why do we need to even have any religion injected in taxpayer funded graduation ceremony? Why do we need to have a prayer? Can you give me a truthful argument with convincing rationale?
