Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony

HEARTLESS wrote: Our Constitution allows for all beliefs. I'm not pushing for any particular belief to rule over all others. Should we punish a sports figure that shows religious reverence after scoring a touchdown?

No. The reason being is that it is not a publicly funded ceremony (unless you count all the tax dollars Bowlen got for the stadium - but let's not go there.)

Again, I'll quote the Supreme Court decision, which explains the reasoning very well:

The explanation lies in the lesson of history that was and is the inspiration for the Establishment Clause, the lesson that in the hands of government what might begin as a tolerant expression of religious views may end in a policy to indoctrinate and coerce. A state-created orthodoxy puts at grave risk that freedom of belief and conscience which are the sole assurance that religious faith is real, not imposed.

The explanation lies in the lesson of history that was and is the inspiration for the Establishment Clause, the lesson that in the hands of government what might begin as a tolerant expression of religious views may end in a policy to indoctrinate and coerce. A state-created orthodoxy puts at grave risk that freedom of belief and conscience which are the sole assurance that religious faith is real, not imposed.

The issue is not about state sponsored religion, it's about an individual's right of free speech.

Kate wrote:

jf1acai wrote:

Why do we need to even have any religion injected in taxpayer funded graduation ceremony?

We don't.

Why do we need to have a prayer?

We don't.

Why do we need to even have a taxpayer funded graduation ceremony?

We don't.

Why do we do it? Because we want to, and we live in a country that allows us to do so. At least it always has, and hopefully will continue to do so.

Who is "we?" I don't want to have it in a graduation ceremony. As you said, there is no need to have prayer in graduation ceremonies, so why have them. Do you have a rational reason other than "want?"

It has been ruled by the Supreme Court, in the decision cited above, that "we" are not allowed to have state sponsored religious ceremonies in public graduation ceremonies.

Spontaneous student-initiated, student-led prayer is NOT a state sponsored religious ceremony. I'm with you completely in that I don't want religion sponsored by the State. The First Amendment just simply allows freedom of speech AT a state sponsored event, i.e. high school graduation. I am stunned at your insistance of denying students their freedom of speech.

Who is "we?"

You are the one who brought "we" in to the discussion.

I do not want to have taxpayer funded graduation ceremonies at all, particularly if they violate the Constitution by not allowing freedom of speech. They are a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Trouble wrote: Spontaneous student-initiated, student-led prayer is NOT a state sponsored religious ceremony. I'm with you completely in that I don't want religion sponsored by the State. The First Amendment just simply allows freedom of speech AT a state sponsored event, i.e. high school graduation. I am stunned at your insistance of denying students their freedom of speech.

I agree that student initiated prayer is not state sponsored religious ceremony - on a technicality. If it's not planned by the school, then it's not state sponsored.

In the Supreme Court decision, they ruled that prohibiting state sponsored religion in a public school graduation is not a violation of free speech. I urge you to read it.

CriticalBill wrote:

The explanation lies in the lesson of history that was and is the inspiration for the Establishment Clause, the lesson that in the hands of government what might begin as a tolerant expression of religious views may end in a policy to indoctrinate and coerce. A state-created orthodoxy puts at grave risk that freedom of belief and conscience which are the sole assurance that religious faith is real, not imposed.

The issue is not about state sponsored religion, it's about an individual's right of free speech.

What I gather from the case cited is that prohibiting state sponsored religion in a public school graduation is not a violation of free speech. I urge you to read it.

As I understand it, if a student gets in front of the microphone and utters a prayer, it is not state sponsored religion. They still have the right to do that, to thank whatever deity they wish to mention. If the school inserts it as part of the program, that's state sponsored religious endorsement. I hope you see the difference.

The crowd applauded after speakers said “Amen,” a word that was prohibited until the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals late Friday granted an emergency appeal to allow prayer at the commencement ceremony.

“The judge of all judges commands us to pray,” said Rep. John V. Garza (R-San Antonio), according to The San Antonio Express-News. “I still cringe thinking some left group would complain or file a lawsuit … I thank God that all is well this evening and none of us will be thrown in jail.”

http://www.christianpost.com/news/texas ... out-50863/

:thumbsup:

LadyJazzer wrote: It's not about praying...(as I have said before)... It seems to be about being "seen" or "heard" praying by others. Rather narcissistic, having to make sure that others see you do it... I guess some feel the need to make sure that they put their religiosity on display. (Before they return to their decidedly un-Christian activities...)

Coming from the biggest self promoter on the site. Even your sig. is designed to tell everyone how "good" a jazz player you are. I'm sure your screen name was well thought out too so people could go to your site and marvel at your great accomplishments. How's that glass house of yours?

:thumbsup: :woo hoo: