Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony

Kate wrote:

The Viking wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: That is why we have a Republic, and not a pure Democracy...so that the "Tyranny of the Majority" cannot be forced on to the minority. If we were "majority rule", we would still have slavery.

If those at the graduation cannot live without a public pronouncement of their faith, (even though they are free to say any prayer, to any God they like, at any time), then they are also free to leave.

Why should the majority have to leave? So are you saying that the minority should rule? And how do we please every single minority? What about someone who wants the flags taken down because it offends them? Or is offended by facial hair? Or offended by sports on TV? Or those who think video games should be banned? Or what about those who want cigarettes banned? Or alcohol? When does the stepping on people's freedoms stop? Everything in this world offends at least one person or group. So do we send every lawsuit of things that offend people to the SCOTUS and make them decide? HELL NO! The minority has no right to whine and dictate how the majority has to act or live, especially when it is not hurting them. Other than their ego.

So, the majority has the right to dictate to the minority what religion they have to listen to at graduation ceremonies? That's what we're discussing here, Viking. Not facial hair or flags or video games, etc. We're talking about the observation of religion at a taxpayer funded public school ceremony.

Isn't it amazing how my phrase "free to leave" magically gets transformed into "HAVE to leave"... Who knew?

The Viking wrote:

Kate wrote:

The Viking wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: That is why we have a Republic, and not a pure Democracy...so that the "Tyranny of the Majority" cannot be forced on to the minority. If we were "majority rule", we would still have slavery.

If those at the graduation cannot live without a public pronouncement of their faith, (even though they are free to say any prayer, to any God they like, at any time), then they are also free to leave.

Why should the majority have to leave? So are you saying that the minority should rule? And how do we please every single minority? What about someone who wants the flags taken down because it offends them? Or is offended by facial hair? Or offended by sports on TV? Or those who think video games should be banned? Or what about those who want cigarettes banned? Or alcohol? When does the stepping on people's freedoms stop? Everything in this world offends at least one person or group. So do we send every lawsuit of things that offend people to the SCOTUS and make them decide? HELL NO! The minority has no right to whine and dictate how the majority has to act or live, especially when it is not hurting them. Other than their ego.

So, the majority has the right to dictate to the minority what religion they have to listen to at graduation ceremonies? That's what we're discussing here, Viking. Not facial hair or flags or video games, etc. We're talking about the observation of religion at a taxpayer funded public school ceremony.

So what if the minority, or in this case, one whiney spoiled brat, complained about the robes at graduation and felt offended or 'irreparably harmed' because he could not see men in robes. Should all the guys have to not wear robes? Or what if one whiney spoiled brat, complained because they gave out an award for Valedictorian? What if he said he was 'irreparably harmed' because they gave special notice to another student and not him? Should they stop that ritual in graduation ceremonies, because a minority of students in a 'tax funded institution' felt slighted? Where does it end? And don't say it's just about religion. What if tomorrow another student sees this and sues for one of those things to be stopped? You can't take away American's rights just because you don't believe in what they are saying.

It is just about religion. You can make up "what ifs" all you want, but this is about freedom of and from religion. If I choose to not believe in a deity, I should not have that pushed in my face by the majority at a taxpayer funded graduation, should I? What gives you the right to proclaim your deity instead of mine at that ceremony? Just because you are the majority?

But I can't believe that you, as a conservative that defends the Constitution, are celebrating a judge allowing the imposition of the majority religion upon the minority. Why can't we just leave religion out of it? Can you please answer that question? Conifer High School had a ceremony without any religious invocations or insinuations. Why can't this school?

Kate wrote: Conifer High School had a ceremony without any religious invocations or insinuations. Why can't this school?

Because it's Texas.

archer wrote:

The Viking wrote: Should all the guys have to not wear robes? Or what if one whiney spoiled brat, complained because they gave out an award for Valedictorian? What if he said he was 'irreparably harmed' because they gave special notice to another student and not him? Should they stop that ritual in graduation ceremonies, because a minority of students in a 'tax funded institution' felt slighted? Where does it end? And don't say it's just about religion. What if tomorrow another student sees this and sues for one of those things to be stopped? You can't take away American's rights just because you don't believe in what they are saying.

You also can't step on one persons rights to appease others who think religion belongs in public schools when the courts have said it doesn't.

So it is better to step on hundreds of people's rights just to appease one? Where is that logic?

Kate wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Kate wrote:

The Viking wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: That is why we have a Republic, and not a pure Democracy...so that the "Tyranny of the Majority" cannot be forced on to the minority. If we were "majority rule", we would still have slavery.

If those at the graduation cannot live without a public pronouncement of their faith, (even though they are free to say any prayer, to any God they like, at any time), then they are also free to leave.

Why should the majority have to leave? So are you saying that the minority should rule? And how do we please every single minority? What about someone who wants the flags taken down because it offends them? Or is offended by facial hair? Or offended by sports on TV? Or those who think video games should be banned? Or what about those who want cigarettes banned? Or alcohol? When does the stepping on people's freedoms stop? Everything in this world offends at least one person or group. So do we send every lawsuit of things that offend people to the SCOTUS and make them decide? HELL NO! The minority has no right to whine and dictate how the majority has to act or live, especially when it is not hurting them. Other than their ego.

So, the majority has the right to dictate to the minority what religion they have to listen to at graduation ceremonies? That's what we're discussing here, Viking. Not facial hair or flags or video games, etc. We're talking about the observation of religion at a taxpayer funded public school ceremony.

So what if the minority, or in this case, one whiney spoiled brat, complained about the robes at graduation and felt offended or 'irreparably harmed' because he could not see men in robes. Should all the guys have to not wear robes? Or what if one whiney spoiled brat, complained because they gave out an award for Valedictorian? What if he said he was 'irreparably harmed' because they gave special notice to another student and not him? Should they stop that ritual in graduation ceremonies, because a minority of students in a 'tax funded institution' felt slighted? Where does it end? And don't say it's just about religion. What if tomorrow another student sees this and sues for one of those things to be stopped? You can't take away American's rights just because you don't believe in what they are saying.

It is just about religion. You can make up "what ifs" all you want, but this is about freedom of and from religion. If I choose to not believe in a deity, I should not have that pushed in my face by the majority at a taxpayer funded graduation, should I? What gives you the right to proclaim your deity instead of mine at that ceremony? Just because you are the majority?

But I can't believe that you, as a conservative that defends the Constitution, are celebrating a judge allowing the imposition of the majority religion upon the minority. Why can't we just leave religion out of it? Can you please answer that question? Conifer High School had a ceremony without any religious invocations or insinuations. Why can't this school?

Because it has been a part of our schools since the inception of this great nation. Up until a bunch of PC progressives felt that it was time to change things the way 'they' want it. And I do defend the Constitution 100% and that is why this appeal was a huge victory for America and the First Amendment. :woo hoo: :woo hoo:

Pray away, I just don't to pay for your personal religion or superstitions.

The Viking wrote:

archer wrote:

The Viking wrote: Should all the guys have to not wear robes? Or what if one whiney spoiled brat, complained because they gave out an award for Valedictorian? What if he said he was 'irreparably harmed' because they gave special notice to another student and not him? Should they stop that ritual in graduation ceremonies, because a minority of students in a 'tax funded institution' felt slighted? Where does it end? And don't say it's just about religion. What if tomorrow another student sees this and sues for one of those things to be stopped? You can't take away American's rights just because you don't believe in what they are saying.

You also can't step on one persons rights to appease others who think religion belongs in public schools when the courts have said it doesn't.

So it is better to step on hundreds of people's rights just to appease one? Where is that logic?

What rights would that be? To me, it's very simple: You can't use the government to endorse one religion over another, which is what this taxpayer funded ceremony is going to do. You can cry "freedom of speech" all you want, but you still can't use freedom of speech to trample on other peoples rights to worship or not worship as they see fit.

I'll ask another question that I'm fairly certain you will ignore: Would you still support taxpayer funded religion in this ceremony if it was Islamic prayer that was being imposed instead of Christian?

The Viking wrote:

Kate wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Kate wrote:

The Viking wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: That is why we have a Republic, and not a pure Democracy...so that the "Tyranny of the Majority" cannot be forced on to the minority. If we were "majority rule", we would still have slavery.

If those at the graduation cannot live without a public pronouncement of their faith, (even though they are free to say any prayer, to any God they like, at any time), then they are also free to leave.

Why should the majority have to leave? So are you saying that the minority should rule? And how do we please every single minority? What about someone who wants the flags taken down because it offends them? Or is offended by facial hair? Or offended by sports on TV? Or those who think video games should be banned? Or what about those who want cigarettes banned? Or alcohol? When does the stepping on people's freedoms stop? Everything in this world offends at least one person or group. So do we send every lawsuit of things that offend people to the SCOTUS and make them decide? HELL NO! The minority has no right to whine and dictate how the majority has to act or live, especially when it is not hurting them. Other than their ego.

So, the majority has the right to dictate to the minority what religion they have to listen to at graduation ceremonies? That's what we're discussing here, Viking. Not facial hair or flags or video games, etc. We're talking about the observation of religion at a taxpayer funded public school ceremony.

So what if the minority, or in this case, one whiney spoiled brat, complained about the robes at graduation and felt offended or 'irreparably harmed' because he could not see men in robes. Should all the guys have to not wear robes? Or what if one whiney spoiled brat, complained because they gave out an award for Valedictorian? What if he said he was 'irreparably harmed' because they gave special notice to another student and not him? Should they stop that ritual in graduation ceremonies, because a minority of students in a 'tax funded institution' felt slighted? Where does it end? And don't say it's just about religion. What if tomorrow another student sees this and sues for one of those things to be stopped? You can't take away American's rights just because you don't believe in what they are saying.

It is just about religion. You can make up "what ifs" all you want, but this is about freedom of and from religion. If I choose to not believe in a deity, I should not have that pushed in my face by the majority at a taxpayer funded graduation, should I? What gives you the right to proclaim your deity instead of mine at that ceremony? Just because you are the majority?

But I can't believe that you, as a conservative that defends the Constitution, are celebrating a judge allowing the imposition of the majority religion upon the minority. Why can't we just leave religion out of it? Can you please answer that question? Conifer High School had a ceremony without any religious invocations or insinuations. Why can't this school?

Because it has been a part of our schools since the inception of this great nation. Up until a bunch of PC progressives felt that it was time to change things the way 'they' want it. And I do defend the Constitution 100% and that is why this appeal was a huge victory for America and the First Amendment. :woo hoo: :woo hoo:

I'm very sorry that you feel it is your right to impose your religion upon others.

I am a devout Christian, a regular attender of my church and active in religious groups. That said, I find prayers at secular events inappropriate. I've always taken the words of Matthew to heart-

5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Kate wrote: What about those who do not believe in a supreme being? Should they be forced to endure listening to the belief systems of others?

I'm having a hard time understanding why you think this is a big issue. Why not just refrain from religious observations in all public assemblies - especially those on public property and in public schools?

I've got a better idea - why don't we simply abide by the amendment and not allow the state to say boo on the free practice of religion wherever it may happen to be being practiced? We have benedictions from various religious people all the time in public buildings and at public gatherings. A benediction is a person saying a prayer for the assembled. The person giving the benediction is invoking their deity to bless, help and guide you, not the state's deity. If someone else wants to pray to their God for your well being, what's the problem with allowing them to do so? They are not asking you to say the prayer, they are simply praying for you and you are being respectful and polite by remaining silent while they pray for you. If you don't believe in a supreme being, then you believe you will neither be helped or harmed as a result of the prayer because there is no being which can assist and guide you. I don't see how asking a being who doesn't exist to help you can irreparably harm anyone, but perhaps you can explain that to me.

Heck Kate, I can use all the prayers I can get. I don't care if you invoke Buddha, Yahweh, The Great Spirit, The Great Pumpkin, Allah or sprites to look after me and help me navigate my way through life. About 80% of the people in this nation profess a belief in the God of Abraham. The progressives keep talking about our democracy, yet they only believe in democracy, majority rule, when they are the ones with the majority. If they aren't, then by God we won't be having any democracy until they are and they will go to the courts to make certain that democracy only happens when they hold the majority.

How about we put it up to a democratic vote of the students who are graduating whether or not they wish to receive a benediction instead of letting a single student, that student's parents and a judge decide what will or will not happen at their graduation?