Was John Quincy Adams A "Founding Father"??

Your feelings of embarrassment should be saved for the conduct of those who take the opportunity to use a difference of opinion to attack the intelligence of those with whom they disagree and play "gotcha" politics of personal destruction games over whether or not a man, who no one would argue made important and significant contributions to a fledgling nation, deserved to be included among those designated as founders.

Whether or not JQA was a founding father is a difference of opinion, not a difference of intelligence. A perfect example of those who wish to attach, by whatever means possible, to the person the disdain they feel for their political views.

Save the embarrassment for yourself my friend - you are in much greater need of it than I am.

No...Thanks... I'm fine...I'll just enjoy yours...

There's no "difference of opinion"... A 9-year-old boy was NOT a "founding father", and no twisted logic can make him so.

(But I'm really enjoying the "victimhood" thing... That's very entertaining.)

(Sign taped to "Bachmann for President" bus: "We're bringing teh 'crazy' to you!")

Science Chic wrote: Just some food for thought I'd throw in here...

This gets to the heart of the matter: the Founders were grappling with 18th century problems, and would be bewildered by the debates we're having today. While at the core many of the same struggles continue today: corruption, greed, waste, abuse of power; we do face vastly differing circumstances than that faced by the citizens of the newly formed United States of America (population growth alone requires changes in governing). It would behoove us to take the lesson of how they dealt with implementing radical change - listening and debating all viewpoints openly and equally before settling on compromise and flexibility, and creating a document that is the embodiment of those very characteristics - and apply that to our problems today. No one viewpoint has all the answers, and our strength comes from our diversity in beliefs, attitudes, and experiences.

Happy 4th of July everyone!

It would behoove us to take a lesson from them in how they dealt with radical changes. They set the task of asking the best minds representing the people to come up with a plan - and then they went to the people to approve or disapprove that plan; not simply pack a bunch of people onto a bench and have them decree from on high. Remember how the former slaves became citizens? Remember how women were granted suffrage? Quite a bit different than a group of people deciding they had the power to do as they wished simply by torturing new interpretations out of thin air and appointing a group of people to say they could do it. You want to grant to the federated government the power to take over all the health care of the citizens? Fine - ask the citizens if they are OK with that idea. Propose the amendment of the Constitution and let the people tell you whether or not they wish to grant you that much authority and power instead of resting your head on your left shoulder, squinting so hard that everything becomes blurry and proclaiming that it is quite clear that the authority and power already exists.

That is the lesson we need to relearn about a government of, by and for the people. The power of government is a strictly limited power, not one whose only limits are the ones that exist in the minds of those who are currently serving in that government.

Please follow the link to read one of the most insightful articles on the significance of our country. There is no portion for a quote of this article that can summarize its message.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892c.asp

The Rise, Fall, and Renaissance of Classical Liberalism, Part 1

by Ralph Raico, August 1992

Classical liberalism — or simply liberalism, as it was called until around the turn of the century — is the signature political philosophy of Western civilization. Hints and suggestions of the liberal idea can be found in other great cultures. But it was the distinctive society produced in Europe — and in the outposts of Europe, above all, America — that served as the seedbed of liberalism. In turn, that society was decisively shaped by the liberal movement.

major bean wrote: Please follow the link to read one of the most insightful articles on the significance of our country. There is no portion for a quote of this article that can summarize its message.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892c.asp

The Rise, Fall, and Renaissance of Classical Liberalism, Part 1

by Ralph Raico, August 1992

Classical liberalism — or simply liberalism, as it was called until around the turn of the century — is the signature political philosophy of Western civilization. Hints and suggestions of the liberal idea can be found in other great cultures. But it was the distinctive society produced in Europe — and in the outposts of Europe, above all, America — that served as the seedbed of liberalism. In turn, that society was decisively shaped by the liberal movement.

*sigh*

MsMAM wrote:

major bean wrote: Please follow the link to read one of the most insightful articles on the significance of our country. There is no portion for a quote of this article that can summarize its message.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892c.asp

The Rise, Fall, and Renaissance of Classical Liberalism, Part 1

by Ralph Raico, August 1992

Classical liberalism — or simply liberalism, as it was called until around the turn of the century — is the signature political philosophy of Western civilization. Hints and suggestions of the liberal idea can be found in other great cultures. But it was the distinctive society produced in Europe — and in the outposts of Europe, above all, America — that served as the seedbed of liberalism. In turn, that society was decisively shaped by the liberal movement.

*sigh*

What is your take on this treatise?

Doesn't have a thing to do with John Quincy Adams being a "founding father", does it....

Just another ad hominem, and boring, liberal bash... You need some new material. (That one is nearly 20 years old...) Why don't you try something from the John Birch Society website? That seems more your style.

Deflectors on maximum, Scotty!

major bean wrote:

MsMAM wrote:

major bean wrote: Please follow the link to read one of the most insightful articles on the significance of our country. There is no portion for a quote of this article that can summarize its message.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892c.asp

The Rise, Fall, and Renaissance of Classical Liberalism, Part 1

by Ralph Raico, August 1992

Classical liberalism — or simply liberalism, as it was called until around the turn of the century — is the signature political philosophy of Western civilization. Hints and suggestions of the liberal idea can be found in other great cultures. But it was the distinctive society produced in Europe — and in the outposts of Europe, above all, America — that served as the seedbed of liberalism. In turn, that society was decisively shaped by the liberal movement.

*sigh*

What is your take on this treatise?

Why would I bother? You never even told me what my gay agenda is.

MsMAM wrote:

major bean wrote:

MsMAM wrote:

major bean wrote: Please follow the link to read one of the most insightful articles on the significance of our country. There is no portion for a quote of this article that can summarize its message.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892c.asp

The Rise, Fall, and Renaissance of Classical Liberalism, Part 1

by Ralph Raico, August 1992

Classical liberalism — or simply liberalism, as it was called until around the turn of the century — is the signature political philosophy of Western civilization. Hints and suggestions of the liberal idea can be found in other great cultures. But it was the distinctive society produced in Europe — and in the outposts of Europe, above all, America — that served as the seedbed of liberalism. In turn, that society was decisively shaped by the liberal movement.

*sigh*

What is your take on this treatise?

Why would I bother? You never even told me what my gay agenda is.

What?! Did I say you had a gay agenda? I think that you are dreaming or something.