Was John Quincy Adams A "Founding Father"??

CriticalBill wrote: 14 pages for this....really?

:rofl FIFTEEN NOW!

MsMAM wrote: So? Bachman made a mistake? Sheesh.

A mistake - or does she just hold an opinion regarding JQA that differs somewhat from the opinion of someone else? A difference of opinion that is then used to attack the person, not the opinion, by those whose opinion differs from her own. A difference of opinion which is then used by those who disagree to attack the intelligence and worth of the person whose opinion differs from their own. A difference of opinion used as an excuse to engage in wholesale demagoguery and stereotyping of those who may differ ideologically from themselves.

Being 9 years-old at the time of the creation and signing of the founding documents by the so-called "Founding Fathers" is not an "opinion" it is a fact. The FACT that you are twisting yourself into knots trying to cover Bachmann's incompetence is entertaining... But I'm still embarrassed for you.

PrintSmith wrote:

MsMAM wrote: So? Bachman made a mistake? Sheesh.

A mistake - or does she just hold an opinion regarding JQA that differs somewhat from the opinion of someone else? A difference of opinion that is then used to attack the person, not the opinion, by those whose opinion differs from her own. A difference of opinion which is then used by those who disagree to attack the intelligence and worth of the person whose opinion differs from their own. A difference of opinion used as an excuse to engage in wholesale demagoguery and stereotyping of those who may differ ideologically from themselves.

I prefer to think she made a mistake as some others have than to actually think that she thinks he is a founding father. That you will never convince me of. But frankly, I could have made the same mistake based on his father.

LadyJazzer wrote: Being 9 years-old at the time of the creation and signing of the founding documents by the so-called "Founding Fathers" is not an "opinion" it is a fact. The FACT that you are twisting yourself into knots trying to cover Bachmann's incompetence is entertaining... But I'm still embarrassed for you.

James Monroe is considered a founding father, yet he neither composed nor signed either of the founding documents. Will you be so kind as to tell us with certitude what the narrow definitions are and where they may be found?

PS has a good point here- I don't think founding father is as well defined as LJ seems to think. One generation removed from the actual 1776 events is still pretty important, they needed the following generations to solidify the republic.

And it's a fact that he was alive at the time- at 9 years of age.

I have a grandfather who fought under Washington- was he a founding father? I think he was.

I'm proud of what they accomplished - and not so fond of opinions like LJ's - who keep saying that what they did back then have no importance these days.

That shows very little respect for what they fought for and died for - and a slap in the face of the Tradition and belief system that created this country.

BearMtnHIB wrote: That shows very little respect for what they fought for and died for - and a slap in the face of the Tradition and belief system that created this country.

Oh, pullllleeeze... Is this where we break out the fife-and-drum corps, and start waving the flag, and wrap ourselves in the "I'm more patriotic than you are" bullsh*t? The kid was 9-years-old. He was NOT a "founding father". I have better things to do than play PS's hypotheticals for the rest of the afternoon...

I still feel embarrassed for you.

How old are you, BearMtn?, to have a grandfather who fought under Washington?

I have ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War on the Colonist side, but I'd throw in a lot of "great-great...etc." before grandfather.

PrintSmith wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: Being 9 years-old at the time of the creation and signing of the founding documents by the so-called "Founding Fathers" is not an "opinion" it is a fact. The FACT that you are twisting yourself into knots trying to cover Bachmann's incompetence is entertaining... But I'm still embarrassed for you.

James Monroe is considered a founding father, yet he neither composed nor signed either of the founding documents. Will you be so kind as to tell us with certitude what the narrow definitions are and where they may be found?

James Monroe was a leading figure in the ratification of the Constitution, and without his influence and work, it is doubtful that the Constitution would have been ratified, thus he is considered a Founding Father.

Founding Fathers are generally considered those political leaders and statesmen who were instrumental in the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution. There is no record of John Quincey Adams being instrumental in any of those activities.

It is shameful that there are those who would cheapen history by revising it without foundation to further their political agendas.

BearMtnHIB wrote: PS has a good point here- I don't think founding father is as well defined as LJ seems to think. One generation removed from the actual 1776 events is still pretty important, they needed the following generations to solidify the republic.

And it's a fact that he was alive at the time- at 9 years of age.

I have a grandfather who fought under Washington- was he a founding father? I think he was.

I'm proud of what they accomplished - and not so fond of opinions like LJ's - who keep saying that what they did back then have no importance these days.

That shows very little respect for what they fought for and died for - and a slap in the face of the Tradition and belief system that created this country.

Under the clear definition of Founding Father, your grandfather would be considered one for fighting in the Revolutionary War. Your family must have incredible longevity to stretch three generations over 240 years. Since I believe everyone would agree that the United States was "founded" at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, then the Fathers of the founding would be those who were instrumental in the creation of the Revolution, the winning of the Revolution and the ratification of the Constitution. That is not say JQA and others were not important figures in the early history of the US, they simply were not Founding Fathers.