Home Depot Co-Founder Blasts Obama

jf1acai wrote: I do NOT think it is the business of the federal government to FORCE me, or anyone else, to help others by taking the $$ I have earned and redistribute it to others.

Did you, or did you not, agree to pay taxes when you started working? If you did, then you have no cause to complain. No one forced you to pay taxes....you agreed as soon as you went to work. If you didn't like it and felt you were being forced, why didn't you just quit? or move somewhere else? there are plenty of people in this world who would gladly take your place and pay the taxes.

Just exactly what do you think would happen to this country if there were no taxes?

Get real jf1......if we did not help the poor, the elderly, the disabled, the children.....would this really be the great country it is? with starving children.....sick and dying like in Africa....is that what you want? Or seniors.....widows who have nothing but their SS.....take that away and where do they go? how do they live?

All I read in your posts is me, me, me.....don't give me the I volunteer so I am a good guy and shouldn't have to pay taxes if I don't want to. Only a centralized government can provide for the millions in need in this country, and our taxes do that. Not to mention the military....you want to get rid of that?

I do NOT think it is the business of the federal government to FORCE me, or anyone else, to help others by taking the $$ I have earned and redistribute it to others.

How did you turn that into saying that there should be no taxes, or that I don't want to pay any taxes? Or that I want to get rid of the military?

You have complained about others putting words in your mouth, yet you do the same thing.

I do disagree that

Only a centralized government can provide for the millions in need in this country...

Please don't try to turn that into something else that I didn't say.

Ok.....so what is the goverment forcing you to pay if it isn't taxes?

I'm really not trying to put wolrds into your mouth, I am trying to understand what it is you are saying......most of what you post makes little sense to me and now I am even more confused.....you say you don't want to be forced to pay money to the gov't....but you are OK paying taxes? are you talking about medicare...or SS?

Or.....do you just think you shouldn't have to pay any money into social programs....

Help us out here....what do you mean? all I'm getting from you is you didn't mean what I read into it, well if you don't tell us what yolu mean how can we understand?

The problem archer is that you fall into the classical progressive habit of creating something that wasn't said out of something that was said. This is why you are confused. jf1 never said that no one should pay any taxes - that was a leap you made all by yourself. Try limiting the words to the actual ones that appear, approach the subject from the mindset that the individual, not the DC government, decides where and how much of the fruits of their labor they wish to donate to charity and the point that was made will become crystal clear.

The main purpose of the government in DC is not to compel one by force of law to be charitable, despite the conclusion one may reach to the contrary by looking at how it spends the tax revenues it receives from the citizens of the states that belong to the union. The DC government is not empowered to decide how much of the money that one realizes from the fruits of their labor they don't need.

The millions in need can be provided for by their fellow citizens without a wannabe national government becoming the primary fundraising arm and central clearinghouse for charitable donations of the nation. The more centralized the folks in DC seek to make this effort the less effective it becomes in actually providing for the needs of those millions and the more corrupt and wasteful the programs become. We're now $14.5 Trillion in the hole, soon to be $16.5 Trillion with no end in sight, as a result of the federal government attempting to do something it was never intended to do - provide for the individual welfare of each and every citizen living in each and every state that has joined the union. Do you really think that the men who sat down and penned our Constitution thought that the nation wouldn't grow and expand to cover vast areas of land filled with a diverse population of citizens?

Not only did they contemplate it, they were counting on it and they were planning for it when they created the coordinate powers of government where one looked after the foreign affairs and the other the domestic affairs of the citizens in that state. What the authors of our Constitution knew, which self labeled progressives seem to ignore, is that a centralized government attempting to rule a vast area of land filled with a diverse population historically results in the failure of that large and diverse nation every time it is tried. Those men, the ones who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor in the pursuit of ridding themselves of just such a government, wanted to create a system of self governance that would prevent their experiment from becoming the next Rome. They were not interested in ruling for the rest of their lives, they were interested in protecting the individual liberty that they had secured for themselves for their posterity.

The United Kingdom, the entire United Kingdom, has roughly 20% of our population, as does France. Germany 25%. The state of California has more people living it in than all of Canada does. Centralized control may have a chance of working with small populations with similar interests or a high density of population within a small geographic area, though current results give good argument to the contrary, but a nation that has a large area and a large, diverse population stands no chance of being effectively governed in every area from a central location. The interests of New York City and Denver are nowhere near the same, how then can a one size fits all program run by a centralized government hope to help the poor, the elderly, the disabled, the children in these two completely different areas? It can't do that effectively, which is why the Constitution left this task to the states where the cities were located rather than transferring to the federal government the responsibility to oversee this important area.

The focus of the federal government is macro in nature, not micro. The federal executive can't effectively micro manage the individual welfare of each citizen living in Park County, Colorado. The state executive is likely also incapable of this task. The executive branch of the Park County government, however, has a reasonably good chance of effectively addressing this. The national executive has no time to micromanage the operation of the schools that educate the children in Park County, Colorado, neither does the state executive. Ahh, but here again the executive branch of Park County has a good opportunity to effectively manage those schools.

The lion's share of the taxes paid by the citizens of Park County, Colorado should be collected by the local government of Park County, not the wannabe national one, because they have a much better chance of identifying and helping the citizens of their county who are in need of assistance than anyone back in DC does. The mayor of NYC has a much better opportunity to identify the citizens who are living in NYC who require help than the head of charity distribution in DC does as well.

Yes archer, we do have a moral obligation to help those in true need and be charitable towards them, but it isn't what we pay taxes to the government in DC for. Obama only has the authority to decide how much of his own money he doesn't need and desires to donate to charity, he doesn't have the authority to make that decision for everyone else whose income is roughly equal to, or in excess of, his own. Congress doesn't have that authority either, nor do the majority of the citizens whose income pales in comparison to that of Obama. Association in this nation is voluntary, not compulsory. If a rich miser chooses not to associate themselves with any charitable operations, that is a decision that they alone are empowered to make. No one is owed, or has a right to, the charity of another. No one is owed, or has a right to, the food that someone else grows, the shelters they build, or the services they provide. Compelling someone to participate in charity of another's choosing through the force of the government's ability to levy and collect taxes is as morally bankrupt as allowing someone to starve in the street is. That is where the rubber hits the road archer. Charity, as with every other association in a nation of individual liberty, is a voluntary act that one chooses to be, or not to be, associated with, the force of government can't be used to compel them to be charitable if we are going to be a nation where freedom of association is a protected right.

PrintSmith wrote: [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] classical progressive habit [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the DC government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah]e fruits of their labor [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah]government in DC [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] citizens of the states[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah]. The DC government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] fruits of their labor [blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] wannabe national government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] federal government attempting to do something it was never intended to do - provide for the individual welfare [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] What the authors of our Constitution knew, which self labeled progressives seem to ignore[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] men, the ones who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] protecting the individual liberty that they had secured for themselves for their posterity.

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the Constitution left this task to the states [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] The national executive has no time to micromanage the operation of the schools [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the wannabe national one, [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] it isn't what we pay taxes to the government in DC for. [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] Association in this nation is voluntary, not compulsory. [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] No one is owed, or has a right to, the food that someone else grows[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] Compelling someone to participate in charity of another's choosing through the force of the government's ability to levy and collect taxes is as morally bankrupt [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] freedom of association is a protected right.

There.... I've distilled the usual Hamiltonian, 18th-century, Federalist, Sovereign Citizen bullsh*t down to its essence... It saves so much time....

And yes, actually, "provide for the general welfare" DOES allow the government to do what it does... And your continued denial of it is so much righty bullsh*t, and doesn't change the fact.

As I've said before, I'm still in awe of the fantasy world you live in... And I'm forever glad that you haven't got a chance of a snowball-in-hell of institutionalizing your selfish views into reality... I feel sorry for the sociopathic world you live in.

Yeah, we shouldn't have passed the "G.I. Bill of Rights" that guaranteed all those guys in the "Greatest Generation" the chance to go to college; and the "VA Loan" programs that helped most of them buy their houses and start their families....(which included us selfish Baby Boomers)... Humbug... Those bastards should have done it all themselves, and it wasn't a government function to take those tax-dollars from us to pay for it....

I feel sorry for you too... You'll go to your grave feeling like you were "cheated"....

Like I said before, sometimes I think anthrax is a higher life-form on the evolutionary scale.

I believe, and you may disagree, that ONE of the causes for the current deficit is the $$ paid by the federal government to those who have given nothing in return. This money is obtained from the taxpayers by force of law, and I believe it is being inappropriately used.

I do not believe that the welfare of individual citizens is the business of the federal government. I believe this is the responsibility of State and local government, charities, large corporations and small businesses, and individuals.

I believe that because the federal government got involved where it should not have, and has essentially assumed responsibility for this area, State and local government, charities, large corporations and small businesses, and individuals are now considerably less likely and/or less able to help those in need, both because they have less $$ available and because it is seen as being the responsibility of the federal government, which has taken the money paid in taxes for this purpose.

I believe that the federal government, due to the size of the bureacracy, inefficiency, lack of understanding of the needs of State and local areas, etc. is less capable of properly administering aid to those in need than are State and local government, charities, large corporations and small businesses, and individuals which are intimately familiar with the actual conditions.

I also believe that the federal government has both the responsibility and authority to oversee the actions/inactions of the State governments to ensure that aid is provided equitably, and to eliminate artificial barriers to aid for those who move across state boundaries.

I believe that in the case of major disasters, which overwhelm the ability of State and local government, charities, large corporations and small businesses, and individuals to properly assist the needy, the federal government should assist.

This has gotten way too long, and has probably already glazed over the eyes of most, but I hope it has helped in some way to clarify where I am coming from.

So are you Ok with the states taking your money "forcibly" for welfare and medicaid and other social programs? It's still your tax dollars either way.

The problem I have with the states taking over the social programs is that all states are not created equal when it comes to income....it could be a nightmare for those needing services and for the states to keep things fairly equal across the country. If one state decides not to have any welfare or medicaid...then people will move to a state that does placing a larger burden on that state. Unless the feds regulate it...then you might as well have the feds run it.

LadyJazzer wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] classical progressive habit [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the DC government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah]e fruits of their labor [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah]government in DC [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] citizens of the states[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah]. The DC government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] fruits of their labor [blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] wannabe national government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] federal government attempting to do something it was never intended to do - provide for the individual welfare [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] What the authors of our Constitution knew, which self labeled progressives seem to ignore[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] men, the ones who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] protecting the individual liberty that they had secured for themselves for their posterity.

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the Constitution left this task to the states [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] The national executive has no time to micromanage the operation of the schools [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the wannabe national one, [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] it isn't what we pay taxes to the government in DC for. [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] Association in this nation is voluntary, not compulsory. [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] No one is owed, or has a right to, the food that someone else grows[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] Compelling someone to participate in charity of another's choosing through the force of the government's ability to levy and collect taxes is as morally bankrupt [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] freedom of association is a protected right.

There.... I've distilled the usual Hamiltonian, 18th-century, Federalist, Sovereign Citizen bullsh*t down to its essence... It saves so much time....

And yes, actually, "provide for the general welfare" DOES allow the government to do what it does... And your continued denial of it is so much righty bullsh*t, and doesn't change the fact.

As I've said before, I'm still in awe of the fantasy world you live in... And I'm forever glad that you haven't got a chance of a snowball-in-hell of institutionalizing your selfish views into reality... I feel sorry for the sociopathic world you live in.

Yeah, we shouldn't have passed the "G.I. Bill of Rights" that guaranteed all those guys in the "Greatest Generation" the chance to go to college; and the "VA Loan" programs that helped most of them buy their houses and start their families....(which included us selfish Baby Boomers)... Humbug... Those bastards should have done it all themselves, and it wasn't a government function to take those tax-dollars from us to pay for it....

I feel sorry for you too... You'll go to your grave feeling like you were "cheated"....

Like I said before, sometimes I think anthrax is a higher life-form on the evolutionary scale.

I would use lots of happy, smilie, thumbsuppy, cute, precious adorable emoticons but it is against my spiritual beliefs. Very nice.

LadyJazzer wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] classical progressive habit [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the DC government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah]e fruits of their labor [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah]government in DC [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] citizens of the states[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah]. The DC government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] fruits of their labor [blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] wannabe national government [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] federal government attempting to do something it was never intended to do - provide for the individual welfare [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] What the authors of our Constitution knew, which self labeled progressives seem to ignore[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] men, the ones who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] protecting the individual liberty that they had secured for themselves for their posterity.

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the Constitution left this task to the states [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] The national executive has no time to micromanage the operation of the schools [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] the wannabe national one, [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah].

[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] it isn't what we pay taxes to the government in DC for. [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] Association in this nation is voluntary, not compulsory. [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] No one is owed, or has a right to, the food that someone else grows[blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] Compelling someone to participate in charity of another's choosing through the force of the government's ability to levy and collect taxes is as morally bankrupt [blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah][blah] freedom of association is a protected right.

There.... I've distilled the usual Hamiltonian, 18th-century, Federalist, Sovereign Citizen bullsh*t down to its essence... It saves so much time....

And yes, actually, "provide for the general welfare" DOES allow the government to do what it does... And your continued denial of it is so much righty bullsh*t, and doesn't change the fact.

As I've said before, I'm still in awe of the fantasy world you live in... And I'm forever glad that you haven't got a chance of a snowball-in-hell of institutionalizing your selfish views into reality... I feel sorry for the sociopathic world you live in.

Yeah, we shouldn't have passed the "G.I. Bill of Rights" that guaranteed all those guys in the "Greatest Generation" the chance to go to college; and the "VA Loan" programs that helped most of them buy their houses and start their families....(which included us selfish Baby Boomers)... Humbug... Those bastards should have done it all themselves, and it wasn't a government function to take those tax-dollars from us to pay for it....

I feel sorry for you too... You'll go to your grave feeling like you were "cheated"....

Like I said before, sometimes I think anthrax is a higher life-form on the evolutionary scale.

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