speaking of regulations

OK AV, so what is the right age. Since you condone the government running our lives, what is the right age. 20,22,19,18. These laws are as stupid as the one that does not allow, our military to drink a beer, but they can go die for our country. How damn stupid is that. Rockdoc said it best. ENOUGH SAID.

Your opinion is your opinion, you are entitled to it. Doesn't mean your wrong or right. It means you have an opinion.

AspenValley wrote: I'm sorry, no matter how you all carry on about the "nanny state" and how I'm "worse than a terrorist" for thinking so, I think laws that place reasonable limits on what children should be allowed to do or not do are perfectly legitimate. I don't want to see little kids driving semis whether their parents think they are "mature" enough or not, I don't want to see children allowed to buy liquor whether their parents think it's fine or not, and I don't want to see little kids operating farm equipment whether their parents think it's fine or not.

I don't care if a an ADULT rides a tractor bare ass naked while standing on top of a live leopard, and I don't even think the law should limit an adult from smoking pot or drinking himself silly or whatever other idiotic thing he wants to do, although if he harms someone else in the process he needs to be held responsible, but I do think the law has the right to require that adults don't put children at risk.

Period.

You know AV. Those are decisions that you as a parent have the right to exercise. While you may deem it inappropriate to do certain things, it is NOT your right or by extension of a government regulation to take that decision making right away from other parents who do not agree with your vision.
We have a great example with "child abuse". Now a parent is not allowed to discipline a child in conservative ways (ways that have proven effective such as leaving a red hand print on the butt, because of similar regulations you want to impose now on farm equipment use. Look where that has gotten us. How many times have parents been compromised because of said regulations? Their child turns them in or threatens them with such action to be manipulative. Or another adult turns in a parent after the parent swats their kid on the but in a store for misbehaving. I've experience such things first hand. Appropriate discipline is subjective. What you may hold as severe punishment is not considered the same by many others. So does your view carry more weight than another parent's? Why should that be? Why is it necessary to conform to narrow guidelines when the consequences of them are often counter productive? Can you guarantee that your way of rearing a child is "better" than another's? No one way work equally well for child rearing, yet when we put laws in place that delve into parental decision making, you do force your way on others and they have every right to reject it.
It is dangerous to live in this world, it always has been and no amount of legislation will prevent it from continuing to be dangerous. The danger is itself a most effective teacher. If we cut ourselves with a knife we learn to be more careful. You do not have to be an adult to experience this. You want adults operating farm equipment because you consider it beyond that ability of kids to do so in a safe manner. You judge those kids to be incapable of good decision making. That is your judgement without any investigation of how valid your judgement is, yet you want to ram this a regulation in place to enforce your view and deny a child from learning much and experiencing the pride of their accomplishments that comes with their performance. I just don't see how you can do that. It's one thing to protect a child and quite another to shelter them from reality.

Im not sure where I sit on this issue. I have always been against the nanny state regarding regulating adults....anti smoking regs, seat belts etc. Treat adults as adults and let them assess the risks and make their decisions. With children....it gets murky. Where do we draw the line between parental responsibility and abuse or endangerment of a child? If we say OK..spank your child if you feel that is appropriate, what about parents who lock their kid in a dog cage or closet as punishment? What about parents who leave little kids alone all day or night? Or parents who withhold food or water as punishment? Is that any worse than allowing a little kid to operate dangerous machinery? I don't know...where DO we draw the line....should there even be a line, or do we stand by and let parents do whatever they want with their own kids? I think we need laws to protect children who cannot protect themselves against adults in a position of authority be they parents, teachers, priests, coaches or whoever. It's determining where that line should be that is hard.

I also grew up on a farm. My brothers, sisters and I did not suffer machinery injuries. Our hired man did - this clothing got caught in the PTO. He was a bloody mess.

I am surprised that one of our resident anti-corporation participants has not connected that this measure in one of a long line of governmental regulations that helps puts the family farmer out of business. This will be another big win for the corporate farms in the name of the children. I am happy that I got to live such a life and that the government did not regulate that away from me.

While growing up I knew kids who died from accidents at school, but none who died from farm machinery operation. The statistics below reflect that.

AspenValley wrote: I'm not convinced they have much sense, either, but if they regulate it at least when some idiot farmer sends his kid to his death on a piece of farm machinery they'll at least have some legal standing to send his ass to jail.

So we want farm regulations to help reduce the 0.27% rate of machinery death. It seems to me that this just reflects the disrespect shown to rural people. You know, the hicks, the red necks, the hillbillies, the idiot farmer - they just are not as sophisticated/smart as everyone else and the government needs to regulate them for the sake of their children.

Top 20 Causes of Death - Young Teen (10 - 14)

Rank Cause of Death Total Deaths No of Deaths Percent
All Deaths 4132 4132 100.00%
1 Unintentional Injury 1542 37.32%
* MV Traffic 874 21.15%
* Drowning 162 3.92%
* Fire/burn 101 2.44%
* Other Land Transport 80 1.94%
* Suffocation 70 1.69%
* Firearm 34 0.82%
* Poisoning 28 0.68%
* Other Transport 27 0.65%
* Pedestrian, Other 26 0.63%
* Fall 24 0.58%
* Struck by or Against 22 0.53%
* Other Spec., classifiable 20 0.48%
* Pedal cyclist, Other 19 0.46%
* Unspecified 19 0.46%
* Other Spec., NEC 12 0.29%
* Machinery 11 0.27%
* Natural/ Environment 11 0.27%
* Cut/pierce 2 0.05%
2 Malignant Neoplasms 535 12.95%
3 Suicide 260 6.29%
4 Congenital Anomalies 218 5.28%
5 Homicide 216 5.23%
6 Heart Disease 163 3.94%
7 Chronic Respiratory Disease 95 2.30%
8 Cerebrovascular 58 1.40%
9 Influenza & Pneumonia 53 1.28%
10 Septicemia 53 1.28%
11 Benign Neoplasms 45 1.09%
12 Diabetes Mellitus 29 0.70%
13 Anemias 24 0.58%
14 HIV 21 0.51%
15 Meningitis 21 0.51%
16 Perinatal Period 16 0.39%
17 Meningococcal Infection 14 0.34%
18 Nephritis 12 0.29%
19 Pneumonitis 9 0.22%
20 Liver Disease 5 0.12%
All Others 743 17.98

http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes_of_Death_Younger_Teens.html

AspenValley wrote: And I really don't care if every one of you thinks I am wrong or even throw nasty insults and belittling comments at me.

You mean like you threw at me.

AspenValley wrote: [Very, very wrong? So you think there shouldn't be minimum ages for kids to get drivers licenses, buy liquor or cigarettes, have consenual sex? There shouldn't be any legal accountability for parents who let their kids run wild, drink alcohol, drive vehicles, harm themselves or others? There shouldn't be any laws about negligence or irresponsible parenting? Ther shouldn't be any legal protection for kids to protect them from dangerous workplaces or parents who decide they need a few extra bucks so send their kids to work in a coal mine or foundry?
.

I said none of those thing except that I thought you were wrong. I thought that was a pretty nice way to agree to disagree. You put a whole bunch of words in my mouth that I did not say. that is a very old and thread bare tactic. We are done.

daisypusher wrote: I also grew up on a farm. My brothers, sisters and I did not suffer machinery injuries. Our hired man did - this clothing got caught in the PTO. He was a bloody mess.

I am surprised that one of our resident anti-corporation participants has not connected that this measure in one of a long line of governmental regulations that helps puts the family farmer out of business. This will be another big win for the corporate farms in the name of the children. I am happy that I got to live such a life and that the government did not regulate that away from me.

While growing up I knew kids who died from accidents at school, but none who died from farm machinery operation. The statistics below reflect that.

AspenValley wrote: I'm not convinced they have much sense, either, but if they regulate it at least when some idiot farmer sends his kid to his death on a piece of farm machinery they'll at least have some legal standing to send his ass to jail.

So we want farm regulations to help reduce the 0.27% rate of machinery death. It seems to me that this just reflects the disrespect shown to rural people. You know, the hicks, the red necks, the hillbillies, the idiot farmer - they just are not as sophisticated/smart as everyone else and the government needs to regulate them for the sake of their children.

Top 20 Causes of Death - Young Teen (10 - 14)

Rank Cause of Death Total Deaths No of Deaths Percent
All Deaths 4132 4132 100.00%
1 Unintentional Injury 1542 37.32%
* MV Traffic 874 21.15%
* Drowning 162 3.92%
* Fire/burn 101 2.44%
* Other Land Transport 80 1.94%
* Suffocation 70 1.69%
* Firearm 34 0.82%
* Poisoning 28 0.68%
* Other Transport 27 0.65%
* Pedestrian, Other 26 0.63%
* Fall 24 0.58%
* Struck by or Against 22 0.53%
* Other Spec., classifiable 20 0.48%
* Pedal cyclist, Other 19 0.46%
* Unspecified 19 0.46%
* Other Spec., NEC 12 0.29%
* Machinery 11 0.27%
* Natural/ Environment 11 0.27%
* Cut/pierce 2 0.05%
2 Malignant Neoplasms 535 12.95%
3 Suicide 260 6.29%
4 Congenital Anomalies 218 5.28%
5 Homicide 216 5.23%
6 Heart Disease 163 3.94%
7 Chronic Respiratory Disease 95 2.30%
8 Cerebrovascular 58 1.40%
9 Influenza & Pneumonia 53 1.28%
10 Septicemia 53 1.28%
11 Benign Neoplasms 45 1.09%
12 Diabetes Mellitus 29 0.70%
13 Anemias 24 0.58%
14 HIV 21 0.51%
15 Meningitis 21 0.51%
16 Perinatal Period 16 0.39%
17 Meningococcal Infection 14 0.34%
18 Nephritis 12 0.29%
19 Pneumonitis 9 0.22%
20 Liver Disease 5 0.12%
All Others 743 17.98

http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes_of_Death_Younger_Teens.html

I jumped out of this conversation a while ago but thanks for printing the list of things we can expect to be regulated if the people on here have their way.

Next would be stronger regulations and age restrictions for bicycles, as they are almost twice as likely to cause death with kids between 10-14.

After that they should go after what age kids can walk by theirself as according to this chart kids are more tht 2 1/2 times likely to be killed walking that with machinery.

Then they need to go after and regulate anything tht can be poison in your home as it is 3 times as likely to kill a child this age than machinery accidents. And if not then they need to go to jail.

Then they need to regulate what you do with your guns too! As by this chart they are also 3 times as likely to kill a child this age. So we need government in our home to watch where we keep our guns.

Then by the logic shown by some on here, they need to go after and regulate anything plastic that could cause suffocation in your house at that is over 6 times more likely to kill a child this age.

THEN they should, by their own logic go after matches. 9 TIMES as likely to kill a child this age as machinery! I can't believe the people on here haven't fought to have them banned or make sure you keep them in a locked safe or you go to jail!

And then OMG they need to close or regulate ALL pools and bathtubs!! Kids between 10-14 are over 14 times more likely to die this way than with machinery!!

So this is a good warning what people like the ones on here might go for next!!! There is no rhyme or reason to their logic. Just need to control people and they get bored when new controling regulations aren't passed. So look out for all the things listed above! They are FAR more dangerous so they will be coming for them next!!!

Sometimes Viking, you are just an annoying little gnat.

The age on that list was 10-14.......I thought we were talking about 8 year olds, and someone mentioned 4 year olds driving machinery. Apples and oranges.

However, though I do see AVs point, I have to admit that I was driving a boat probably before I was able to ride a bike......and yes, a boat can be very dangerous, especially if you really, really like running it in circles as fast as you can. I often wonder how we all survived our respective childhoods. But I do see the need for some regulations/common sense laws to protect children who are unable to protect themselves from abusive adults. Sorry if you think that a parent can do pretty much what they want to, or with, their own children. I think there need to be laws to protect our most vulnerable members of society. Too many horror stories out there about what some parents have done to kids.

archer wrote: Sometimes Viking, you are just an annoying little gnat.

The age on that list was 10-14.......I thought we were talking about 8 year olds, and someone mentioned 4 year olds driving machinery. Apples and oranges.

However, though I do see AVs point, I have to admit that I was driving a boat probably before I was able to ride a bike......and yes, a boat can be very dangerous, especially if you really, really like running it in circles as fast as you can. I often wonder how we all survived our respective childhoods. But I do see the need for some regulations/common sense laws to protect children who are unable to protect themselves from abusive adults. Sorry if you think that a parent can do pretty much what they want to, or with, their own children. I think there need to be laws to protect our most vulnerable members of society. Too many horror stories out there about what some parents have done to kids.

8 was an arbitrary number. I was the only one who brought that up saying that I was driving a tractor at that age. Now you and AV get stuck on that when the majority of kids that start working in fields are probably closer to 12-14. So which one of the above on the list that are FAR more dangerous to kids that age should they go after next? And why did they pick one that is so far down on the list?

The Viking wrote: 8 was an arbitrary number. I was the only one who brought that up saying that I was driving a tractor at that age. Now you and AV get stuck on that when the majority of kids that start working in fields are probably closer to 12-14. So which one of the above on the list that are FAR more dangerous to kids that age should they go after next? And why did they pick one that is so far down on the list?

Huh? I'm not stuck on anything.....where did I say anything about age to be driving a tractor or to start working in the fields???? Nor did I say anything about any regulations I thought were good....my response was more to those posts wanting parents to have the right to do whatever they want to their kids, and I wondered if any of you thought there should be a limit to those rights, or laws to protect the children.

Care to comment on that viking, or would you just rather assume you know what I think? Rather presumptuous of you don't you think?

archer wrote: [my response was more to those posts wanting parents to have the right to do whatever they want to their kids, and I wondered if any of you thought there should be a limit to those rights, or laws to protect the children.

I missed those posts. How about it posters. Anyone here advocate having a kid so you could sell them into slavery
or run them over with a tractor.