European nudes and American prudes

Rockdoc wrote: "Given our current perspective even the glimps of a niple becomes headline news. BFD. It should not even deserve notice."

Just a gentle reminder darling that "niple" has two p's. lol Just trying to help you out. If I can be of any further asisstance, please don't hesitate to let me know. :Whistle

Sunshine Girl wrote: Rockdoc wrote: "Given our current perspective even the glimps of a niple becomes headline news. BFD. It should not even deserve notice."

Just a gentle reminder darling that "niple" has two p's. lol Just trying to help you out. If I can be of any further asisstance, please don't hesitate to let me know. :Whistle

rofllol rofllol As a matter of fact.....

major bean wrote: Until you parade around Safeway naked I will believe that all that you want is to see some fetching member of the opposite sex laying around on the grass on a blanket in the raw.
The great drawback to promiscuity (relaxed atittude toward sex) is VD. It takes a couple of decades for some the viruses to kill you with cancer, but if you fool around enough, you will eventually get a major case of VD.
Then, all the "fun" is gone from being wild and free. And whenever you give your VD to your spouse, the future gets a little miserable around the house.
What ever happened to maturity and responsibility?
And if you are not covorting around in the hay loft, you are violent? How did violence get tied to maturity?

So are you saying that that tolerating nudity will lead to more promiscuity? By somehow seeing a nipple on TV, people will want to run out and have sex? I would disagree. It would be the same as saying that lawful citizens having guns causes more murder.

I am saying that the US attitude towards nudity (OK and sex) is NOT working. Our lack of tolerance is having the opposite affect ( http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=419&Itemid=177 ) more teen pregnancy, abortions and VD than in many (all?) European and "first world" countries. While I don't want to see two people humping in the express lane at Safeway, I also think it is OK to see naked people at the beach.

And...when the US government promotes and unrealist attitude (absention and NO SUPPORT of education) instead of responsibility (protected sex) we are setting people up to fail.

major bean wrote:

Rockdoc Franz wrote: Take a brief look at even thrid world countries where clothes are optional. I do not see VD killiing everyone off, I do not see rampant promiscuity.

Let us consider Africa. Their sexual conduct is less than prudish. And VD is killing them by the millions (20 million?). Do you deny the AIDS problem in Africa? Would you like to reconsider the quote above?

Consider the rate of vaginal cancer and infertility here in prudish America. These are directly related to VD.

I don't agree in comparing "third-world" countries to "first-world". I would venture to bet that the rate of casual sex is a LOT higher in the US than in Africa. Reason being: Mazlow's Hierarchy. If you are looking for food and shelter, casual sex is low on your list of priorities. Does it happen, yeah, but not like the US.

The Aids rate in Africa IS going down in many countries due to education. By teaching the WOMEN that yeah, you can get aids from unprotected sex. And if you have Aids chances are your kid will get it when s/he is born. So education of women and availability of condoms IS having a positive affect in many countries.

Sunshine Girl wrote: Yah, I guess I'm not a big believer in others telling me what I should or shouldn't believe, how I should or shouldn't dress, or how I should or shouldn't act. Likewise, I have zero interest in telling them the same. Live and let live! You don't have to look too far to understand why countries can't seem to get along with one another when we have a difficult time accepting others for their individualities right here in our little communities. :bash

You kind of had me and I kind of agree. If you would have put an asterisk or a "most of the time" I would have agreed, but I have to call you on the "live and let live".

I'm sure you won't tolerate murder, rape, theft, or a host of other "obvious" things and when you see them I hope you speak out. You can't have a truely "Live and Let Live" attitude in any community. Thus the friction around relationships of which you speak. I believe they key to a healthy community is a respectful debate around, and consistent enforcemnt of, societal norms. Once you stop understanding those who are different, you end up hating folks because they are black, jewish, blonde, female.....

And in your posts here, are you not telling your community how you feel and what you believe?? Intentional or not you are having an impact on the norms of this site.

You must be involved in your community.

One of my favorite quotes is by Martin Niemöller:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Back in the '60s there was a big concern in the rate of pregnancy of teenage girls, so they began the sex education programs in the schools. The thinking/reasoning was that "information" would reduce this pregnancy rate. Girls were becoming pregnant because they did not know that sex caused babies. (Really! I am not making this up.) And, at the time, there was very little problem with the rate of unwed mothers because nearly all young couples faced with an inconvenient problem got married.
Along came the birth control pill and everyone thought that the whole problem was solved. But new problems emerged as a result: people started "shacking up", divorce skyrocketed, venereal disease became rampant, the modular family unit appeared.
Now you say that the answer to the destruction of stable family is for everyone to relax their attitude on sexual mores, get naked, and increase your sexual performance, take Viagra as a daily vitamin supplement, cheat on your spouse, swap wives (or husbands), get bigger dogs, let your kids become sexually active earlier, etc., etc,.

What does this do to your children whenever they see Mom cavorting around naked in the yard with some stranger or strangers? Or Dad bringing home some naked young thing to play with upstairs? What happens whenever Mom's latest plaything turns his attentions to the voluptions body of the teenage daughter?

Ahh, the wonderful life of the European; bicycling in the nude, skinny dipping, sitting around the cafe sipping wine.

major bean wrote: Now you say that the answer to the destruction of stable family is for everyone to relax their attitude on sexual mores, get naked, and increase your sexual performance, take Viagra as a daily vitamin supplement, cheat on your spouse, swap wives (or husbands), get bigger dogs, let your kids become sexually active earlier, etc., etc,.

What does this do to your children whenever they see Mom cavorting around naked in the yard with some stranger or strangers? Or Dad bringing home some naked young thing to play with upstairs? What happens whenever Mom's latest plaything turns his attentions to the voluptions body of the teenage daughter?

Ahh, the wonderful life of the European; bicycling in the nude, skinny dipping, sitting around the cafe sipping wine.

Hmm... I don't recall making the correlation to "take viagra, cheat on your spouse, etc". Mainly because I don't believe a more accepting attitude toward nudity causes those things.

The intent of this post was to comment that Americans are more accepting of violence -vs- nudity. Which you seem to validate as you are apalled at the thought of more nudity, and all the bad things that come from it, and yet are silent on the state, and acceptance levels, of violence in the US.

ExtremeModerate wrote:

Sunshine Girl wrote: Yah, I guess I'm not a big believer in others telling me what I should or shouldn't believe, how I should or shouldn't dress, or how I should or shouldn't act. Likewise, I have zero interest in telling them the same. Live and let live! You don't have to look too far to understand why countries can't seem to get along with one another when we have a difficult time accepting others for their individualities right here in our little communities. :bash

You kind of had me and I kind of agree. If you would have put an asterisk or a "most of the time" I would have agreed, but I have to call you on the "live and let live".

I'm sure you won't tolerate murder, rape, theft, or a host of other "obvious" things and when you see them I hope you speak out. You can't have a truely "Live and Let Live" attitude in any community. Thus the friction around relationships of which you speak. I believe they key to a healthy community is a respectful debate around, and consistent enforcemnt of, societal norms. Once you stop understanding those who are different, you end up hating folks because they are black, jewish, blonde, female.....

And in your posts here, are you not telling your community how you feel and what you believe?? Intentional or not you are having an impact on the norms of this site.

You must be involved in your community.

One of my favorite quotes is by Martin Niemöller:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

My "live and let live" statement was directed at one's personal comfort level of nudity - NOT VIOLENCE! Make no mistake EM, I'm the first one to jump into the fray, speak up, and to protect someone that I perceive in harm. I DON'T turn a blind eye to situations like that. I do so without thinking about the risk I put myself in first. Have you ever seen those 20/20 Prime Time shows called "What would you do?" Well, I'm the chickie with the big mouth, no fear, and balls the size of Texas so to speak. No blind eye from me.

Regarding one's personal comfort level on sex, nudity, etc. I DO have a live and let live attitude. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between stating my personal view/opinion and trying to shove my beliefs down someone's throat, trying to get them to change their own beliefs, attempting to change the moral "compass" of people, and bashing others for their way of conducting their personal business.

Case in point: Do I walk around Safeway naked? No. Do I lay on the grass outside there naked? No. (Only because there is no grass - Just kidding)! However, I do dress the way I want to which is most likely a bit less conservative than most. I have a slight tendency to be rather flirty with my SO on here as well, and when it comes to PDA I enjoy it as often as possible. lol Do I get judged for some of these things? You bet your sweet dollar I do! That is because people that do not share my personal opinions on it object and can be vocal about it. Do I condemn someone because they dress conservatively or dislike PDA? Of course not! It's not like I'm going to walk up to someone and say, "Hey, you two really should hold hands or kiss each other. It's kinda making me feel uncomfortable that you don't. And while you're at it could you please try to dress a bit less boring?" Ridiculous right?! Reverse that now. How dare someone criticize me for it. Live and let live for this - NOT VIOLENCE!

ExtremeModerate wrote:

Sunshine Girl wrote: Yah, I guess I'm not a big believer in others telling me what I should or shouldn't believe, how I should or shouldn't dress, or how I should or shouldn't act. Likewise, I have zero interest in telling them the same. Live and let live! You don't have to look too far to understand why countries can't seem to get along with one another when we have a difficult time accepting others for their individualities right here in our little communities. :bash

You kind of had me and I kind of agree. If you would have put an asterisk or a "most of the time" I would have agreed, but I have to call you on the "live and let live".

I'm sure you won't tolerate murder, rape, theft, or a host of other "obvious" things and when you see them I hope you speak out. You can't have a truely "Live and Let Live" attitude in any community. Thus the friction around relationships of which you speak. I believe they key to a healthy community is a respectful debate around, and consistent enforcemnt of, societal norms. Once you stop understanding those who are different, you end up hating folks because they are black, jewish, blonde, female.....

And in your posts here, are you not telling your community how you feel and what you believe?? Intentional or not you are having an impact on the norms of this site.

You must be involved in your community.

One of my favorite quotes is by Martin Niemöller:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

EM, SG's being too nice. What a wierd response? She obviously said "live and let live" in terms of what the thread is about, not murder, rape and theft, and the Nazi quote is completely out of place in this thread. Troll alert!

ExtremeModerate wrote: I believe they key to a healthy community is and consistent enforcemnt of, societal norms.

While I believe they key to a healthy community is you staying out of my business.
Note to self: Extreme Moderate is an Extreme Idiot

VL, troll alert my patootie. Reading any of EM's postings on this forum would negate that charge in a heartbeat.

EM, you've made some excellent points. Along the same lines, it seems Americans have the same attitude towards women nursing in public, even with everything covered up. Causes a ruckus pretty quickly. Seems I heard of a women being ejected from Coors Field for nursing during a game - she had a blanket covering but there were complaints. I'll have to go find the whole story, but that was the gist of it.

Found it, it was actually the stadium employees that complained:
http://www.krdo.com/news/23870849/detail.html