Exit polls show Sarkozy has lost in France

archer wrote:

BearMtnHIB wrote:
I really think that most of the liberals on here have just failed to secure their own future- that's why you want the government to take care of you. You may be just lazy- or failures in life.

And......you would be wrong, as per usual. I don't want the government to take care of me, I am retired and planned well for that retirement, which, of course, includes paying into SS and Medicare all those working years, those benefits help, but are hardly my sole retirement.

What I find so funny in light of your post are the many seniors I know in AZ who survive primarily on SS and Medicare, without it they would be in a poor house.....and they are not liberals, they are conservatives just like you.....In spite of their situation I would not consider them lazy, or failures in life (except perhaps for their choice of which political party they support). We have had this exact discussion.......and when faced with the new GOP platform of austerity fueled by cuts to SS and Medicare they are perfect little conservatives. They know the cuts won't affect them, and don't really give a damn about what happens to the next generation of retirees.

Actually, no. If they had been able to put the same $$ into a private account over the last 45 working years instead of a poorly run bureaucracy (including buying disability insurance) they would be millionaires, even assuming a low rate of return (less than what public pensions assume today). Plus, any $$ left over could be given to heirs, unlike SS.

This will be interesting to see what France does. My guess is, failure, and into bankruptcy. I don't think you can spend your way to success. Guess we will get to see. If I had to guess today, Obama will win again this year, and continue kicking the can down the road. We will likely be following France if we don't get some politicians with guts, who worry more about their country than re-election. He, and most politicians don't have the guts to make the hard choices. Those in France have chosen to leave the bandaid on, not realizing there is a bad infection underneath which won't be cured by ignoring them. Unfunded mandates by govt. will be our downfall.

What they were intended for, and what they are now is about as useful as the dead-end discussion about what the right-to-vote in Colonial America was intended for (White, rich, property owners) and what it is now. Spare me your "intent" b.s.

Stupidity is watching the austerity measures kill the economies of at least three countries in Europe and thinking that it will work here. Austerity KILLS economies. Trickle-down doesn't...

And the good little Kool-Aid drinking Righties are sociopaths, who would rather see seniors and children starve rather than part with a dollar in taxes...And on the whole, I find anthrax and pond-scum to be a higher life-form.

LadyJazzer wrote: He needs some new knee-jerk insults......

Thanks for the laugh.

archer wrote: [ and should be protected from predators like the Tea Party and the ultra right-wing Republicans. We love her to much to let that happen without a fight.

Thank you. I am pretty sure that being called a predator is not as bad as calling us traitors.

RenegadeCJ wrote: Actually, no. If they had been able to put the same $$ into a private account over the last 45 working years instead of a poorly run bureaucracy (including buying disability insurance) they would be millionaires, even assuming a low rate of return (less than what public pensions assume today). Plus, any $$ left over could be given to heirs, unlike SS.

I would be interested in the numbers that prove that statement.....I have seen otherwise, and like anything involving investments, it's a big gamble on IF it will make money or lose money. And what would you do with medicare?......without it, medical bills in your retirement years would eat up that investment income in short order.......

If all my money had been in a private account when Bush and his buddies in the financial markets were gambling with everybody else's money, I'd be wiped out. Bernie Maddoff, Lehmann Brothers, Washington Mutual, AIG were NOT the patron saints of private accounts... Or didn't you get the memo?

And what would you do with medicare?......without it, medical bills in your retirement years would eat up that investment income in short order.......

that depends too doesn't it? If you are healthy all the time- it won't eat up anything, if you are sick all the time, it eats up everything.

My grandparents were healthy till their mid 90's.

Such as life- you take a risk in this here world. I think lefties are trying to defy nature by thinking that every risk can be insured against.
It can't.

We are all going to die too. I havn't seen one single instance of it being prevented.

archer wrote:

RenegadeCJ wrote: Actually, no. If they had been able to put the same $$ into a private account over the last 45 working years instead of a poorly run bureaucracy (including buying disability insurance) they would be millionaires, even assuming a low rate of return (less than what public pensions assume today). Plus, any $$ left over could be given to heirs, unlike SS.

I would be interested in the numbers that prove that statement.....I have seen otherwise, and like anything involving investments, it's a big gamble on IF it will make money or lose money. And what would you do with medicare?......without it, medical bills in your retirement years would eat up that investment income in short order.......

I've run the spreadsheets myself. We use them to persuade our employees to save in their 401k, and that every little bit counts. Even if you put only 1/2 of the amount (say, the portion the employer deposits on your behalf) into a private acct, you would be better off.

I was leaving medicare as it was. I think there are a lot of better ways to do that as well, but I really was just addressing the SS side. It is sad to me that people have worked hard their whole lives, and never saved, because they were under the impression SS was a retirement plan. Now they are struggling to get by on the meager returns. It has caused me to try to help others avoid that situation by getting them to save on their own. SS could then be the cherry on top instead of the main course.

LadyJazzer wrote: If all my money had been in a private account when Bush and his buddies in the financial markets were gambling with everybody else's money, I'd be wiped out. Bernie Maddoff, Lehmann Brothers, Washington Mutual, AIG were NOT the patron saints of private accounts... Or didn't you get the memo?

Really? My private account was down a large percentage, but because I didn't sell, I didn't actually lose anything. Now I'm back where I was. You don't have any $$ in private accounts LJ?

I did... I lost about $10,000... I never got it back... Thanks to Bush and his cronies, it vaporized... Just like all the money in Bernie Maddoff, Lehmann Brothers, Washington Mutual, AIG, etc.