Mit Romney: The Dream Stealer

Can't get blood out of a turnip.

Vice Lord wrote: Super Malta is right BearMtn, you don't know what youre talking about. Companies can't abrogate ther labor contracts..... even after the stock goes to zero.

Bankruptcy law lets companies walk away from union contracts if they show that they can't succeed under those contracts and that talks with the unions have failed. Merely asking a court for that power gives companies leverage to pry concessions from workers.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... o_can.html

And here is a 72 page legal document that discusses bankruptcy and labor contracts

http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/vie ... mpanies%22

You're wrong.

Ah I was deeply involved in the United Air Lines Bankrauptsy- The stock went to zero, the employee wage raises were slightly reduced, employees kept their free health insurance but lost a week of vacation (which toped out at 7 weeks) and 3 outta 9 paid holidays..Oh and the PBGC took over the companies pension obligations...All negotiated after the company was "not viable"- Not very painful for the workers and they'll get everything back in the current negotiations...The company HAD to deal with the unions, just like American is now begging their unions for consesssions, most they won't get...Its called real life experience big guy- You might want to look into getting some before you run your fat mouth-

BearMtnHIB wrote: Your like a parrot LJ- the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome.

You can't prove any fraud- those companies were going broke no matter what.

And you're like a dumb rock... The only thing that goes in is drivel from Limbaugh, FauxNews, ad nauseum... Unfortunately, nothing but the same drivel parroted back comes back out.

Vice Lord wrote: Ah I was deeply involved in the United Air Lines Bankrauptsy- The stock went to zero, the employee wage raises were slightly reduced, employees kept their free health insurance but lost a week of vacation (which toped out at 7 weeks) and 3 outta 9 paid holidays..Oh and the PBGC took over the companies pension obligations...All negotiated after the company was "not viable"- Not very painful for the workers and they'll get everything back in the current negotiations...The company HAD to deal with the unions, just like American is now begging their unions for consesssions, most they won't get...Its called real life experience big guy- You might want to look into getting some before you run your fat mouth-

You might want to stop making blanket statements like "Companies can't abrogate ther labor contracts..... even after the stock goes to zero" because you're wrong. If an individual company wants to try to work with the union, then they can try to minimize the impact. But bottom line is... the companies have the power to trash all the contracts if they can prove to the court that they cannot viably continue to operate the company under those contacts. That's a fact.

Maybe you need to read that 72 page document I linked to? Maybe you just want to remain ignorant and waste peoples time?

My next door neighbor was a vice president at USWest. Guess what happened to his pension?

In addition- he had about 800 grand in the company stock- which he was prohibited from trading for extended amounts of time. He had to sit there and watch that stock go from 800K down to 26K.

Pensions are a bad deal because of this reason- if a company goes to hell in a hand basket- everyone gets screwed- the management, the investors, the creditors and the employees.

Pensions are pretty much outdated.

Most companies offer the 401K now- and some even match the contributions to a point. This is a better deal because at least if the company goes south- the employee still has that 401K.

Don't be fooled- the United Airlines was a re-organization- not a bankrupcy- which is why the employees still had a deal. United Airlines is still in business and is now again "viable". If it were not salvagable- you all would be out on your asses. But don't worry- the company who buys the planes will need more employees.

Sometimes it happens- and you were lucky- others- not so much. Like I said- there's no guaranty of anything if you are just an employee. I've had to switch jobs over the years because I could see the company I worked for was about to fail.

I worked for a pharmaceutical company in Boulder who lost a contract with Bristol Myers Squibb- that contract was 90% of the business. Bristol built a plant in Ireland where labor was cheaper. I knew when it happened that the game was over- and in 3 months I had a new position with another company. I watched for the next 2 years as the stock went down and down- eventually down to 38 cents from 28 bucks. I watched my former co-workers stab each other in the back trying to keep a job that was going away- and eventually even the backstabbers lost their jobs.

Just see reality for what it is and move on- it's not worth the drama.

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote:

Vice Lord wrote: Ah I was deeply involved in the United Air Lines Bankrauptsy- The stock went to zero, the employee wage raises were slightly reduced, employees kept their free health insurance but lost a week of vacation (which toped out at 7 weeks) and 3 outta 9 paid holidays..Oh and the PBGC took over the companies pension obligations...All negotiated after the company was "not viable"- Not very painful for the workers and they'll get everything back in the current negotiations...The company HAD to deal with the unions, just like American is now begging their unions for consesssions, most they won't get...Its called real life experience big guy- You might want to look into getting some before you run your fat mouth-

You might want to stop making blanket statements like "Companies can't abrogate ther labor contracts..... even after the stock goes to zero" because you're wrong. If an individual company wants to try to work with the union, then they can try to minimize the impact. But bottom line is... the companies have the power to trash all the contracts if they can prove to the court that they cannot viably continue to operate the company under those contacts. That's a fact.

Maybe you need to read that 72 page document I linked to? Maybe you just want to remain ignorant and waste peoples time?

All I know is how it works in real life..Im not a Googologist like you-

And unions will always give a little if a company is willing to open their books and prove a hardship.

BearMtnHIB wrote: My next door neighbor was a vice president at USWest. Guess what happened to his pension?

He's management so who gives a $h!t? He drove the company into the ground , and save your nieghbors cousins uncle told me once bull$h!t...ok?

No worthless second hand, hearsay information here..Its not credible-

BearMtnHIB wrote: Can't get blood out of a turnip.

No but you can sell the turnip and distribute the money to the people that grew and harvested it.

Vice Lord wrote:

BearMtnHIB wrote: Can't get blood out of a turnip.

No but you can sell the turnip and distribute the money to the people that grew and harvested it.

So VL- you hire a union plumber to fix your leaky sink at home- she fixes it and you pay her for the service. Do you owe her anything more?

Well-
Next thing you know- she's demanding more money from you - claiming that your other two sinks need fixin too, and that you havn't paid for her kids dental work or for that pulled muscle she got replacing your sink washers.

In America there's owners- and there are employees. If you want to claim ownership- you'll need to take a risk and invest your money. Just because you hire someone to plant your turnip- does not mean that they own it. Once you have paid for the service of having the turnip planted- you have no further responsibility to the turnip planter- after all you'll still need to pull the weeds around the turnip and water the turnip- and take the risk that some bird won't come along and eat your baby turnip.

You'll also be taking the risk that some entitlement minded leftie wont come along and steal your turnip from you before it even gets big enough to feed your family with. And that's what investors and owners do every day- they take a risk.

So while you got paid with your union paycheck for your service- the owners job is still not done yet- and the owner owes you nothing more than the market rate for your service.

And this concludes today's lesson on the free market. More to come.