The End of School Gun Free Zones ?

04 Jan 2013 15:23 #1 by Grady

PRESS RELEASE: U.S. Representative Massie Proposes Repeal of Federal Gun Free School Zones Act
Gun free zones prevent law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves, and create vulnerable populations that are targeted by criminals”

WASHINGTON – Congressman Thomas Massie (R-KY) introduced H.R. 133, the Citizens Protection Act of 2013, which would repeal the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990.

The bill, originally introduced by Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) in 2007, repeals the Gun Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) of 1990, which made it “unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe is a school zone.” In 1995, the Supreme Court held the GFSZA unconstitutional, which prompted Congress to amend the bill in 1996. The Supreme Court has not ruled on the constitutionality of the amended Act.

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04 Jan 2013 15:29 #2 by Grady
Since gun free zones work so well, maybe this is all that is needed to prevent radical Islamic suicide bombers.

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04 Jan 2013 17:50 #3 by LadyJazzer
Wow... Another KY Republican gun-nut reintroduces a Ron Paul bill that went nowhere in 2007. I'm impressed... I wonder how far this one will go?

:rofllol :lol:

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04 Jan 2013 19:51 #4 by FredHayek
...but really what good do gun free zones do? The bad guys ignore them.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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04 Jan 2013 21:28 #5 by otisptoadwater
Or are the bad guys drawn to them? Are guns the main factor in situations that result in mass murders or is it the goal of the bad guys that defines the target? Timothy McVeigh didn't walk in to the Oklahoma City Federal building and shoot the place up one floor at a time, he parked a truck bomb in front of it instead.

A gun free zone makes as much sense as a Bad Guy Free Zone; the bad guys are going to find a way to hit the targets they want to hit for whatever reason they want to hit them. How about tightening up the laws and penalties for crimes that result in death instead; an eye for an eye instead of an eye for a couple of years in prison and then parole and therapy?

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges; When the Republic is at its most corrupt the laws are most numerous. - Publius Cornelius Tacitus

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04 Jan 2013 21:51 #6 by FredHayek
Typical liberal wishful thinking? If someone shoots up a school adding 10 years to their murderer conviction will show them!

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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04 Jan 2013 22:45 #7 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic The End of School Gun Free Zones ?
I'll admit, I'm torn on the "Gun Free Zones" issue. That being said, I offer this from a blog written by Jim Wright on what he proposes is a fundamental misunderstanding of the purposes of "Gun Free Zones".

To say that gun free zones have failed shows a profound lack of understanding of what those laws, indeed laws in general, were supposed to do in the first place. Nobody (OK, almost nobody) expected gun free zones to completely prevent gun violence. We expected those laws to give us options and legal recourse in the case of certain events. And they have done exactly that. But nobody (OK, almost nobody) expected them to stop gun violence completely.

Just as the law doesn’t stop crime.

That’s not the law’s primary function.

The primary function of the law is to provide society with legal recourse in the face of antisocial behavior, i.e. behavior that infringes on the rights and property of others or upon the security of the society and its people.

If you don’t have a law that makes a school a gun free zone, then when a kid brings a gun to school with the (maybe) intention of threatening his classmates, even if you catch him before he can use it, law enforcement’s options are limited. The school can (maybe) kick him out for violating a school policy, but the law can’t touch him, not really, unless he violated some local gun ordinance or specifically transmitted a threat. And so he goes home, gets the rest of his mommy’s guns and comes back. But if you have a gun free zone, then by law the cops can arrest him the first time and have him evaluated for potential violence and maybe save your kid’s life. And that has happened hundreds of times since implementation of the Gun Free Zones.

For the full blog post, please visit http://www.stonekettle.com/2012/12/bang-bang-crazy-part-four.html .

To be honest, I've heard just about every argument possible, both pro and con on gun free zones. I don't believe for one second they were ever intended to be any more effective than, let's say, a stop sign in "preventing" a lawbreaker from doing what they do best - breaking the law. Following Mr. Wright's logic would seem to me to be a reasonable approach to the issue - legal recourse. Law enforcement, including School Resource Officers (if the school has one) are exempted from the no carry requirement of gun free zones. The National Association of School Resource Officers put out a press release following the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary saying they do not support arming anyone other than fully trained law enforcement personnel:

Q: Should anyone else, other than a police officer, be armed on school property (e.g. school staff, community volunteers, etc. who are not law enforcement officers)?

A: No. NASRO believes that only a fully-trained law enforcement officer should carry a firearm on school property. In addition, law enforcement officers assigned permanently to schools should receive specialized SRO training as soon as possible.

Link: http://www.nasro.org/

They aren't the only law enforcement organization coming out against this concept. There are also other law enforcement that support the possibility.

My point is, elimination of gun free zones, while perhaps sounding good on the face of it, may actually open a Pandora's Box of unintended consequences. If we can't get unanimity from law enforcement on this issue, how will we be able to address the potential problems that could occur if CCW and/or open carry are allowed with no forethought about liability issues of such a policy?

I fully support the School Resource Officer Program. I hold no illusions regarding their ability to reduce the probability of a school shooting to an absolute zero. I believe that's impossible, no matter what we try to do. But I do believe an armed SRO in every school would be a viable deterrent.

And, yes, I am painfully aware that an armed security guard at Columbine High School could not prevent or mitigate the tragedy there. My daughter was one of the kids outside the school critically injured in the first volley of gunfire.

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05 Jan 2013 06:09 #8 by FredHayek
In the zero tolerance school system, kids who point their fingers and say "pow" are getting suspended. I don't think school districts would have an issue with suspending kids who carry weapons to school...but I also bet some kids are daily carrying weapons to schools and no one even suspects.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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05 Jan 2013 09:29 #9 by The Boss
This is political whateverness so people can feel good on their couch, no matter which side wins.

"A gun free zone makes as much sense as a Bad Guy Free Zone." Otis put it pretty well. Though then you make the assumption that harsher punishment will work, I am not sure of this.

All schools are a "don't shoot a kid zone" in fact all kids are pretty much always in a "don't shoot me zone".

Perhaps when we are done with this we can strengthen the rules against changing your license plate so you don't get found after a violent crime....that will stop them.

I still contend our only solutions are better parenting, less govt control of the economy (so less people are not lacking as much opportunity and potentially violent as a result) and accept the consequences.

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05 Jan 2013 09:30 #10 by Blazer Bob

FredHayek wrote: In the zero tolerance school system, kids who point their fingers and say "pow" are getting suspended. I don't think school districts would have an issue with suspending kids who carry weapons to school...but I also bet some kids are daily carrying weapons to schools and no one even suspects.



Depends on the school. 20+ years ago I had to pass thru a metal detector to get into a Detroit public shcool.

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