hillfarmer wrote: Yep. that tinfoil is on too tight.
I have never bought the slippery slope argument. I didn't buy it for Vietnam and I don't buy it for gun control. Getting through universal registration and limiting the size of magazines are the most that will happen in the next few months, and then the momentum will have passed. No, they are not coming for your guns, and no, they aren't going to be breaking down your doors looking for old high-capacity magazines. All of the conspiracy nuts in the world can't convince me that it is possible for gun control to get beyond that in Colorado. :pop
It has happened in other countries and in Hawaii right now they are passing legislation to round up the assault rifles that were registered years ago. Can't happen in Colorado? I would have thought Colorado would never be one of the top 5 states for gun control as the Denver Post declared yesterday. Times change.
Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.
Something the Dog Said wrote: Despite the scare tactics of the NRA and other posters, there is no registry, nor will there ever be a registry. But since it is difficult to argue with actual facts, some have to fall back on false statements and scare tactics.
Is there someway you can know that there will never ever be a registry? Really, NEVER EVER?
I did read the background check bill, there is no requirement for a government gun database. As I understand it the forms currently only require information if the weapon is a long gun (rifle) or short gun (pistol). However don't we already have de-facto gun registration, and if this bill passes, going forward all firearms will be registered. Each licensed gun broker who is doing or will be doing background checks is required to keep records on the actual firearm being transferred. So there is a database of who has what weapons, not a centralized government controlled computer database but a database nevertheless. I am not a FFL so I don't know the rules, whether a FFL must show their records to any LEO anytime or if some sort of a warrant or court order is required. ?????
While there is no current requirement in the Colorado bill for a centralized firearm database. Information is power, so can anybody envision a government not wanting to consolidate and control that information? After all if it saves just one life, isn't it worth it?
No, we have zero gun registration. There is no record (other than those required by the National Firearm Act) by any government agency of firearms owned by a particular individual, or even if that particular individual owns any firearms.
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
Something the Dog Said wrote: No, we have zero gun registration. There is no record (other than those required by the National Firearm Act) by any government agency of firearms owned by a particular individual, or even if that particular individual owns any firearms.
You are correct, my point however is that the dealers (FFLs) are currently keeping those records. How else are LEOs able to trace firearms from manufacturer to the last known person who had a firearm transferred to them via a licensed dealer? How will it take until there are calls consolidate all those separate paper records into a nice modern efficient database. Especially when every firearm transfer must be recorded.
Something the Dog Said wrote: No, we have zero gun registration. There is no record (other than those required by the National Firearm Act) by any government agency of firearms owned by a particular individual, or even if that particular individual owns any firearms.
You are correct, my point however is that the dealers (FFLs) are currently keeping those records. How else are LEOs able to trace firearms from manufacturer to the last known person who had a firearm transferred to them via a licensed dealer? How will it take until there are calls consolidate all those separate paper records into a nice modern efficient database. Especially when every firearm transfer must be recorded.
Dealers have been keeping those records for decades. When the time comes that there is legislation proposed that would create a gun registry, then cry wolf. There is absolutely nothing in the proposed legislation that will create a gun registry of any kind.
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
Something the Dog Said wrote: No, we have zero gun registration. There is no record (other than those required by the National Firearm Act) by any government agency of firearms owned by a particular individual, or even if that particular individual owns any firearms.
You are correct, my point however is that the dealers (FFLs) are currently keeping those records. How else are LEOs able to trace firearms from manufacturer to the last known person who had a firearm transferred to them via a licensed dealer? How will it take until there are calls consolidate all those separate paper records into a nice modern efficient database. Especially when every firearm transfer must be recorded.
Dealers have been keeping those records for decades. When the time comes that there is legislation proposed that would create a gun registry, then cry wolf. There is absolutely nothing in the proposed legislation that will create a gun registry of any kind.
You keep saying that and I keep agreeing. I'm just saying that the registry is already in place. That it wouldn't take much centralize the registry.
I keep saying that because it is the truth. I do not understand your comment that there is already a gun registry in place. Other than as required under the National Firearms Act for machine guns, I am unaware of any such gun registry, or any government agency that keeps records of firearms owned by individuals.
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
Something the Dog Said wrote: I keep saying that because it is the truth. I do not understand your comment that there is already a gun registry in place. Other than as required under the National Firearms Act for machine guns, I am unaware of any such gun registry, or any government agency that keeps records of firearms owned by individuals.
There are 10s of thousands of gun registries, each one in the hands of the FFL holders. Each FFL must maintain those records. Currently only the individual's information along with firearm type is sent to be verified whether that individual can purchase a firearm.
If firearm information along with the individual's information is not kept and recorded by the FFL broker/dealer, how in the world would LEOs be able to track a firearm from the manufacturer to the distributor, to the dealer, and so on down the line. Somebody is tracking where that firearm went.
As I understand things
Every FFL is required to keep a journal (log book).
(I think there's some FFLs on the forum - maybe they can help clarify).
The logs are based on the firearm serial number.
So - let's say a pistol is used in the commission of a crime.
The feds start with the gun maker - which given the serial number, identifies the wholesaler to which the firearm was transferred to --- which identifies the dealer the firearm was transferred to --- which is required to keep a log book, showing who purchased the firearm.
The log book is a physical record, not an electronic record.
On older firearms, it's not unusual for the trail to go cold (they get transferred so many times, that nobody knows where it is - even though there's a physical record, somewhere).
Since there's no actual database, there's no way that someone can figure out who has firearms, and who doesn't. The database is build around the history of each individual firearm --- and it's largely a set of physical records.
The only way to document a firearm's history is through "trace requests." And... it can take a lot of steps to trace a firearm's ownership/possession history.
It has happened in other countries and in Hawaii right now they are passing legislation to round up the assault rifles that were registered years ago. Can't happen in Colorado? I would have thought Colorado would never be one of the top 5 states for gun control as the Denver Post declared yesterday. Times change.
