RenegadeCJ wrote: The disaster this will be won't be proven for a few years, maybe a decade. I think all involved know it will be very bad, and very expensive. Final result, after the revolt, we will have single payer. Obamacare was never intended to actually work, it was a means to an end.
The current disaster is this. Destruction of jobs, destruction of hours. Hurting small business. Making incentives for a company to NOT hire more people. If a company has less than 50, they don't have to pay insurance, or get tax $$ to do so. At 51, they pay a fee, or are required to provide insurance (with no subsidy). Guess what small business can't afford to do.
Renegade, the more I review your post, either you choose to be ignorant or deceitful, I do not know which.
The fine that you claim would devastate a small business for hiring the 51st full time employee would be $42000. If a company having 51 employees chooses not to offer health insurance benefits for their employees, they should certainly be able to pay a $42000 fine (which is probably tax deductible). Further, the company would pay no fine for denying health insurance benefits to their employees if they pay a decent income to their employees. The fine for large businesses only kicks in if the employee receives a tax credit due to their income level being below 400 percent of the poverty level.
You obviously don't own a small biz. I do, and I know lots of others who do as well. The fine is not tax deductible. I don't understand your "company pay not fine for denying health insurance if they pay a decent income to their employees". What is you vision of a "decent income". Shouldn't income be based on how much an employee brings into the company? If an employee brings in $70k in income to the company, the total cost of their employment has to be something less than this, or there is no reason to have them around. They may only make $40k on their check, but with workers comp, unemployment, SS match, etc their total cost to the employer might be $65k. I wish all our employees could make a lot more $$, but that isn't the economics involved. We have lots of people in our industry who already cheat the system by calling their employees "subcontractors", so they don't pay work comp, unemployment, or SS/Med anyway. Now those of us who follow the law get punished with additional fines. Who in their right mind will have 50 employees, and hire another one or two or even 10 if they will be fined for doing so.
Regarding the fine, based on the paperwork I have in front of me, a business with over 50 employees pays a fine if the employee receives a tax credit...that is correct. But the level for a family of 4 is $95,000 (4x poverty level for family of 4). If 1 family member works for me...they have to make $95k from me to not qualify. An unskilled laborer isn't going to make that, regardless of how much I "wish" they would. I would not have a business. Also, even if an employer paid all their people a "decent income", if even one person under the govt threshold claimed the credit, the company gets fined for ever single employee.
I've gone thru 4 seminars now on Obamacare. Nobody really understands it. Even our insurance company who is our health insurance provider is confused. Very difficult to comply. The easiest thing is to bail on employer insurance and toss everyone into the exchanges.
Keep your doctor if you like them? I don't think so.
Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!
I love the passage in the ACA that says all your medical records will be kept private. Really? With our NSA?
Assange probably already has the code to open up the database.
Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.
Medical records won't be kept private. They will all be on a centralized computer...and it isn't a question of if, but when it will be hacked. That doesn't even count our own govt using the info for their nefarious desires.
Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!
RenegadeCJ wrote: The disaster this will be won't be proven for a few years, maybe a decade. I think all involved know it will be very bad, and very expensive. Final result, after the revolt, we will have single payer. Obamacare was never intended to actually work, it was a means to an end.
The current disaster is this. Destruction of jobs, destruction of hours. Hurting small business. Making incentives for a company to NOT hire more people. If a company has less than 50, they don't have to pay insurance, or get tax $$ to do so. At 51, they pay a fee, or are required to provide insurance (with no subsidy). Guess what small business can't afford to do.
Renegade, the more I review your post, either you choose to be ignorant or deceitful, I do not know which.
The fine that you claim would devastate a small business for hiring the 51st full time employee would be $42000. If a company having 51 employees chooses not to offer health insurance benefits for their employees, they should certainly be able to pay a $42000 fine (which is probably tax deductible). Further, the company would pay no fine for denying health insurance benefits to their employees if they pay a decent income to their employees. The fine for large businesses only kicks in if the employee receives a tax credit due to their income level being below 400 percent of the poverty level.
You obviously don't own a small biz. I do, and I know lots of others who do as well. The fine is not tax deductible. I don't understand your "company pay not fine for denying health insurance if they pay a decent income to their employees". What is you vision of a "decent income". Shouldn't income be based on how much an employee brings into the company? If an employee brings in $70k in income to the company, the total cost of their employment has to be something less than this, or there is no reason to have them around. They may only make $40k on their check, but with workers comp, unemployment, SS match, etc their total cost to the employer might be $65k. I wish all our employees could make a lot more $$, but that isn't the economics involved. We have lots of people in our industry who already cheat the system by calling their employees "subcontractors", so they don't pay work comp, unemployment, or SS/Med anyway. Now those of us who follow the law get punished with additional fines. Who in their right mind will have 50 employees, and hire another one or two or even 10 if they will be fined for doing so.
Regarding the fine, based on the paperwork I have in front of me, a business with over 50 employees pays a fine if the employee receives a tax credit...that is correct. But the level for a family of 4 is $95,000 (4x poverty level for family of 4). If 1 family member works for me...they have to make $95k from me to not qualify. An unskilled laborer isn't going to make that, regardless of how much I "wish" they would. I would not have a business. Also, even if an employer paid all their people a "decent income", if even one person under the govt threshold claimed the credit, the company gets fined for ever single employee.
I've gone thru 4 seminars now on Obamacare. Nobody really understands it. Even our insurance company who is our health insurance provider is confused. Very difficult to comply. The easiest thing is to bail on employer insurance and toss everyone into the exchanges.
Keep your doctor if you like them? I don't think so.
Why would you choose to change your doctor if you like them? ObamaCares does not select your medical provider, that is between you and your insurance plan. ObamaCares does provide exchanges for individuals without employer insurance and small businesses, but the exchanges just provide a marketplace so that individuals can shop for the best plan for their purposes on an apples to apples basis.
It is obvious from your previous posts that you do not understand the ACA. Try sources other than right wing blogs.
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
The easiest thing is to bail on employer insurance and toss everyone into the exchanges.
[snip]
Bingo... give that man a cigar. You just discovered the real reason behind why the law was designed the way it was.
Single payer.... as in government run health care for everyone.
How do you go from a market place for private health insurance plans to single payer? The exchanges are the furtherest thing from single payer since it encourages private insurers to compete for customers on an even playing field. The hysteria from the right wingers is amazing.
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
Why would you choose to change your doctor? Let me explain our situation. The wife's company, a state agency, is trying to decrease costs by moving everyone over to Kaiser Permanente instead of the Aetna plan which let you choose your GP's and specialists. So if you aren't on the Kaiser plan, the deductibles have tripled, and her MRI went from a $100 co-pay to a $1000 co-pay. So due to higher costs, we are moving to the Kaiser Permanentee system of doc in a box.
Dog, this is real life, not puff cheerleader pieces written by a media that wants to support ACA versus objectively breaking it down with serious analysis.
Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.
Shut up, sit down, and accept what the the collective "we" voted into law. After all it's what the "we" want. Better still, it's what the DHS and other agencies are prepared to march down our streets and ensure each citizen/non-citizen is in compliance.
At this point I hope Barrycare does pass, I have the financial means to survive the punishment that the ACA brings to the average citizen. What about the rest of the citizens? Screw 'em, most of them ignorantly voted for this crap, let 'em suffer under the stupid sh*t they voted for. maybe when they discover how expensive and invasive the ACA is they'll react (too late to do anything about it). Enjoy the IRS probing your finances and enforcing penalties for non-conformance with a law that should never have been passed.
I hope those suffering from cancer, heart disease, and other fatal diseases can withstand the waiting rooms created by the ACA, never mind being able to afford it. Those that don't - that blood is on the hands of Barry and all of his supporters.
Toad, that is one of the most idiotic statements in awhile, which is quite the feat considering the amout of such statements being made. I hate to tell you this (not really) but the ACA (commonly referred to as ObamaCares and I am assuming that you are trying to call Barrycare) passed several years ago. It is the law of the land. It appears that you really hate the idea of lower income individuals actually being able to have access to medical care. The ACA does not create more patients, it only ensures that medical providers will be paid for taking care of their patients. Why that is a bad thing, I just don't understand. Also FYI, medical care is provided on a triage basis not first come first served. Those who are in the greatest need are seen first. What is really strange is that under the ACA, those who are suffering from "cancer, heart disease, and other fatal diseases" will be to afford medical treatment, which was not the case prior to ACA where insurers could deny insurance for preexisting conditions, or if you reached your policy limits, which if you have recurring cancer or heart disease frequently happened.
It is sad that you would prefer that those in lower incomes be denied access to medical treatment.
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
FredHayek wrote: Why would you choose to change your doctor? Let me explain our situation. The wife's company, a state agency, is trying to decrease costs by moving everyone over to Kaiser Permanente instead of the Aetna plan which let you choose your GP's and specialists. So if you aren't on the Kaiser plan, the deductibles have tripled, and her MRI went from a $100 co-pay to a $1000 co-pay. So due to higher costs, we are moving to the Kaiser Permanentee system of doc in a box.
Dog, this is real life, not puff cheerleader pieces written by a media that wants to support ACA versus objectively breaking it down with serious analysis.
And that is between you and your employer, not the ACA. The ACA is not demanding your wife's company decision to switch insurers.
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
Something the Dog Said wrote:
It is obvious from your previous posts that you do not understand the ACA. Try sources other than right wing blogs.
??? Right wing blogs? You mean seminars put on by industry associations? What about ones put on by our insurance company??
This has nothing to do with right wing anything, and you are right. I don't understand the ACA. Nobody does. You yourself have proven time after time that you don't understand it because you believe it is full of free unicorns and puppies. You can't acknowledge the struggle a small business has in complying with this massive law. Govt runs nothing well, affordable, or efficient.
I'll bet you in 10 yrs it will be another huge entitlement program burdening our economy. Of course, I think you would like that so we are all forced into single payer.
Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!
Shut up, sit down, and accept what the the collective "we" voted into law. After all it's what the "we" want. Better still, it's what the DHS and other agencies are prepared to march down our streets and ensure each citizen/non-citizen is in compliance.
