Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

Replied by ScienceChic on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

Rick wrote: Ah yes, but composting still creates methane and C02 depending on how much oxygen it gets. So you really cant get away from killing the planet. :twisted:

Ahh, but the more I can grow myself, the less in fossil fuels used to truck or fly vegetables to my grocery store that I must purchase. :coolwink: There's always a trade-off, and you have to look at the bigger picture of where more harm is being done - if every household had their own compost and had their own gardens, what size gardens would they need to offset enough purchases from the grocery store (which often gets produce from farms that use heavy nitrogen fertilizers, pesticides, and unhealthy land use) that the net addition of carbon to the atmosphere would be less?

Ashley, bears are few and far between where I live. The mice that get in it are far worse. :unsure:
The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh
29 Oct 2015 22:52 #41

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Replied by Ashley on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

SC but not for long. Make a garden and have a compost pile bears and other wildlife will come. :ohmy:
30 Oct 2015 09:34 #42

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Replied by Rick on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

Now pumpkins are apparently killing the planet too, so you better get rid of all those evil emoticons SC!!
31 Oct 2015 10:16 #43

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Replied by OmniScience on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

news.yahoo.com/french-weatherman-fired-s...rence-180735689.html


Pretty scary when you can be fired for disagreeing with a complex scientific theory.

One thing I am 100% certain about: the Climate Conference is nothing more than a dog and pony show that will solve absolutely nothing.
03 Nov 2015 07:35 #44

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Replied by ramage on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

I would appreciate and learn from a post which can show me the difference between "climate change" and "weather variation".
This post is based on many years of living here and seeing the differences in weather/climate over the years.
03 Nov 2015 16:32 #45

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Replied by ScienceChic on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

To answer your question ramage, here's one link:
NASA - What's the Difference Between Weather and Climate?
Feb. 1, 2005

The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods of time.

When we talk about climate change, we talk about changes in long-term averages of daily weather.

If summers seem hotter lately, then the recent climate may have changed. In various parts of the world, some people have even noticed that springtime comes earlier now than it did 30 years ago. An earlier springtime is indicative of a possible change in the climate.

Weather is basically the way the atmosphere is behaving, mainly with respect to its effects upon life and human activities. The difference between weather and climate is that weather consists of the short-term (minutes to months) changes in the atmosphere. Most people think of weather in terms of temperature, humidity, precipitation, cloudiness, brightness, visibility, wind, and atmospheric pressure, as in high and low pressure.

In most places, weather can change from minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day, and season-to-season. Climate, however, is the average of weather over time and space. An easy way to remember the difference is that climate is what you expect, like a very hot summer, and weather is what you get, like a hot day with pop-up thunderstorms.

Not explicitly mentioned is that weather is very localized geographically. Weather forecasts are made for towns and cities; climate usually refers to regions, continents, and the planet as a whole - it's not just longer-term, but bigger in area as well.

What has been documented all over the world are things like flowers blooming days and weeks earlier than they used to, insects and other animals migrating at different times than before, plants moving up in altitude or into new regions where they never used to grow, and animals that live in very niche habitats ( like the pika at altitude ) facing strains on their population due to unfavorable conditions.

The reason I bring this topic up: we've exceeded 409ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere. 2015 saw a Record Annual Increase of Carbon Dioxide Observed , and observations of what's happening in Antarctica indicate that previous estimates of sea level rise could've been significantly underestimated.
Comment on Recent Record-Breaking CO2 Concentrations
April 20, 2016

Levels exceeded 409 parts per million for the first time in recorded history this month

We are now witnessing the fastest growth rates of the entire record of CO2 measurements. This record-breaking growth is an expected consequence of the near record-breaking fossil fuel usage combined with the largest El Niño event in several decades.

The larger story remains that Earth hasn’t seen levels this high in at least several million years. Unless fossil fuel emissions soon drop significantly below current levels, I expect CO2 levels will surpass the 450 mark by around 2035 and the 500 mark around 2065.

Barring some major breakthrough that allows excess CO2 to be scrubbed from the air, it is currently an impossibility for us to reach the target of 350 ppm that many consider the threshold of dangerous climate change effects. I expect it will take at least 1,000 years before CO2 drops again below 350 ppm.

– Ralph Keeling, director of Scripps CO2 Group



The Keeling Curve is a graph which plots the ongoing change in concentration of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere since 1958. It is based on continuous measurements taken at the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii that began under the supervision of Charles David Keeling.
scrippsco2.ucsd.edu/



Why does increased CO2 matter? It, along with other greenhouse gases, increase the temperature of the atmosphere (and CO2 also dissolves in the ocean making it more acidic).

What is the best description of the greenhouse effect?
Filed under: Climate Science — rasmus @ 12 February 2016

The starting point was to look at the bulk – the average – heat radiation and the total energy flow. I searched the publications back in time, and found a paper on the greenhouse effect from 1931 by the American physicist Edward Olson Hulburt (1890-1982) that provided a nice description. The greenhouse effect involves more than just radiation. Convection also plays a crucial role.

How does the understanding from 1931 stand up in the modern times? I evaluated the old model with modern state-of-the-art data: reanalyses and satellite observations.

The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh
05 May 2016 09:00 #46
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Replied by FredHayek on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

Yes, naturally occurring weather cycles can be hard to differentiate from a sustained man-caused warming of the planet.
I have lived in South Park for years and the 1970's we saw historic snowfalls. A couple times we were only able to use a snowmobile to get groceries. The plows had the snow 10 feet high in the Park. But in the 80's we would have winters where we wouldn't use the plow at all.
So the 70's did look like the Ice Age was coming back like Time predicted. And the 80's you would have believed AGW was correct and doom was at hand.
#35
05 May 2016 14:51 #47

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Replied by ramage on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

"The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods of time."
I agree. The climate is a long term compilation of weather. Over the course of time, meaning eons, the climate does change. I also agree that the influence of man ( anthrpogenic global warming- AWG) as well as other animals, fauna, flora, and the sun influence the climate. It is the height of hubris to think that man can manipulate the climate. That is exactly what the "climate changers" are saying man can do.
It appears that AWG is a substitute for a deistic religion. But AWG supporters don't put their money where their mouth is, i.e., they are using automobiles, relying on coal derived energy systems to power their cars, heat or cool their homes to a "temperature" that is more comfortable for them, etc.
Finally what is the goal of the warriors of AGW? To maintain the climate that they experienced in their lifetimes, (suspiciously like denying a religious faith and denying death)?
In the Rocky Mountains, the climate has changed, the diaries of the the Fur Traders, the earliest written records we have of "weather", "climate", show that. Read Jedediah Smith journals as a start.
05 May 2016 17:49 #48

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Replied by ScienceChic on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

I've been pondering your comment ramage, and I must ask for clarification because there is a contradiction that has me confused.
First you say, "I also agree that the influence of man ( anthrpogenic global warming- AWG) as well as other animals, fauna, flora, and the sun influence the climate."

But your very next sentence, "It is the height of hubris to think that man can manipulate the climate." is the complete opposite. To me, the terms "influence" and "manipulate" are two sides of the same coin...so are we or aren't we?

I appreciate your thoughts on this.
The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh
08 May 2016 17:33 #49

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Replied by ramage on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

My explanation: A mammal, plant or sun storm influences the climate, i.e. your definition, weather over a period of time. To think that we can alter the climate by altering our behavior is hubris. That is meant to say that thinking that humans can appreciably alter the climate by direct intervention is not realistic. The fact that you exist and breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide has an influence on the climate, albeit small, and will continue as long as you live.
I continue to marvel at those who wish to alter climate change and yet are unable to state what is the climate that they are trying to maintain.
09 May 2016 20:57 #50

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