Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

Replied by Rick on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

Some great questions there Ramage.

Just on a humorous note (if someone before me didn’t already mention this).... I had to chuckle when I heard Glazier National Park was quietly removing their signs that say “Gone by 2020”. I think their new slogan should be “Won’t be here Forever”.

But seriously, how is that not a great analogy to “Global Warming” and “Climate Change”?
10 Jun 2019 21:47 #71

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Replied by Rick on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

Sorry, one more question for you all to ponder and generously consider... (I hope at least one of you can answer and show how big your brain works );

Of all green electric vehicles built today, what percentage of energy used to build said cars was also green?

Just an aprox guess unless you have some verifiable facts...
10 Jun 2019 22:06 #72

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Replied by ScienceChic on topic Climate: Why I Believe, What It Would Take To Change My Mind

FNP wrote: For those of you interested in the Hansen testimony, it can be found in the Congressional Record of the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources hearing on June 23, 1988. All 222 pages of it.

babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b5127807&view=1up&seq=1

So, I've now read through all 222 pages and unless I missed something, there was not a single mention of sea level rise of 1-4' sometime between the year 2025 and 2050, by either Dr. Hansen or the other 5 people who provided testimony that day.

Dr. Oppenheimer's testimony begins on Page 87 and he stated that there would be a sea level rise of 2.5"/decade over the next century and a doubling of carbon emissions over the next 40 years (getting us to 630ppm).

Dr. Woodwell's testimony begins on Page 97 and he stated there'd be a doubling of CO2 by 2030 and on Page 103 said we'd have 30cm (11.8") to 1.5m (5') of sea level rise over the next 50-100 years (years 2038-2088, not 2025-2050).

Dr. Manabe (Page 111) spoke about soil wetness, Mr. Dudek (Page 123) talked about crop yields and irrigation, and Dr. Moomaw (Page 148) I didn't even bother make notes about (he was from the World Resources Institute).

Again, this is another example of misrepresenting, no, flat out lying, about what scientists have said (and 31 years ago no less...how about we discuss the most recent data as published in peer-reviewed scientific journals and summarized in the IPCC reports?) in order to confuse the issue and keep people from coming together to work on this problem. How much longer are we (collective) going to keep doing this ridiculous dance?

If we had started reducing our carbon dependency 20 years ago, we wouldn't have had to cut so drastically and it wouldn't have cost as much. Every decade we put this off the harder it will be and the more expensive it will be. Just like if you start saving for retirement at 45 rather than at 25.

ramage, I have struggled with whether to answer your questions. I can't decide if you truly want to discuss this or not, because you can just as easily Google those questions just like you told me to do with Hansen's testimony. I went back and re-read every page here and realized that we don't actually have a definition posted so I'm going to add that.

ramage wrote: Let's cut to the chase:
1) Please define climate change.
2) If you believe in climate change please tell us what is the cause.
3) Please explain the ice age, the presence of dinosaurs in WY/CO as to how climate change impacted the dinosaurs.
4) Is climate change a positive or negative for the entire planet.
5) What is the climate that is desirable and should be thought of as a goal? Again consider the entire planet.

1. Climate change refers to significant changes in global temperature, precipitation, wind patterns and other measures of climate that occur over several decades or longer. Source

2. Listing both natural and anthropogenic, not necessarily all-encompassing, and in no particular order:
solar irradiance
quantity of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere
water vapor
snow/ice cover (albedo)
clouds
volcanic eruptions/aerosols
changes in land vegetation
changes in earth's orbit
changes in the orientation of the Earth’s axis of rotation
ocean currents
meteorite impacts

3. Why?

4. Climate change is what it is. For the planet, there is no positive or negative, it will continue to exist regardless of whether it's a gigantic ice ball or it turns into Venus. For the life contained on the planet, that's another matter.

5. Umm, the climate we've had since the existence of our species? Humans and the current flora and fauna have evolved in a relatively stable climactic era and are adapted to the current conditions as seen in the percentages of the various gases in our atmosphere, the amount of [clean] fresh and salt water available on the planet, the amount of habitable, cultivatible land, and temperature ranges of approximately -50oF to +130oF. Any drastic changes to those conditions and life struggles and/or becomes deceased/extinct.
The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh
16 Jun 2019 22:46 #73

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