Elk Creek Fire demonstrating high level of competence

04 Apr 2012 17:29 #41 by jf1acai

deltamrey wrote: Good fotune with the spin.


Not sure what you mean by spin. All of the items I have brought up are directly related to accountability and the leadership, or lack thereof, involved in the fire. They are 'details' which I believe have to be reviewed as part of determining the quality of that leadership, and what may need to be improved for the future.

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anything in your posts other than general implications that leadership was inadequate, with nothing to support those implications.

Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again - Jeanne Pincha-Tulley

Comprehensive is Latin for there is lots of bad stuff in it - Trey Gowdy

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04 Apr 2012 18:43 #42 by deltamrey
Three people died
get it yet ???

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04 Apr 2012 19:06 #43 by jf1acai
Well aware of that - should we learn something from it, or just throw accusations around?

Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again - Jeanne Pincha-Tulley

Comprehensive is Latin for there is lots of bad stuff in it - Trey Gowdy

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04 Apr 2012 21:14 #44 by akilina
Thanks jf for covering issues that need to be addressed.

There is a command for a reason. The person from North Fork Fire has handled multiple fire situations and remains calm and collected in the face of adverse conditions and has done a remarkable job in the past.

All individuals, including fire chiefs from other districts need to listen and follow the IC. The chaos I was listening to on the scanner indicates that wasn't happening.

IN NOVEMBER 2014, WE HAVE A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO CLEAN OUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE AND ONE-THIRD OF THE SENATE! DONT BLOW IT!

“When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex. Only whit man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.” Indian Chief Two Eagles

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04 Apr 2012 21:34 #45 by CC

akilina wrote: Thanks jf for covering issues that need to be addressed.

There is a command for a reason. The person from North Fork Fire has handled multiple fire situations and remains calm and collected in the face of adverse conditions and has done a remarkable job in the past.

All individuals, including fire chiefs from other districts need to listen and follow the IC. The chaos I was listening to on the scanner indicates that wasn't happening.



Thx for taking the time to listen alkilina. You are soooo right about what you were hearing. We need to have some faith on the folks that send brave people out to keep us safe. Mine is shaken pretty hard right now.

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04 Apr 2012 21:48 #46 by ScienceChic
This has some of the timeline of the day of and Forest Service information on the prescribed burn. I had wondered about the forecast part of it, that when they'd initially decided to go ahead with the burn that they didn't know that conditions were going to become dangerous Monday. It seems that was the case, but they received updated information by the Friday before of the increased danger - what they decided next is not public yet.

Fire Victim Family: Ann Appel Never Got Reverse Notification
Family Tells 7NEWS They Believe Appel Home In Flames Before First Reverse Notification Was Sent
Marshall Zelinger, 7NEWS Content Producer/Presenter
POSTED: 11:31 pm MDT April 3, 2012
UPDATED: 8:54 pm MDT April 4, 2012

State Forest Service Provides 7NEWS Prescribed Burn Documents
On Wednesday morning, March 21, the Colorado State Forest Service reviewed the weather forecast for the next seven days.

7NEWS Chief Meteorologist Mike Nelson reviewed the weather data and did not find any major red flags that would have caused the burn to be immediately canceled. He noted that the temperature, humidity and winds were not at alarming figures.

However, after the burn took place on Thursday, March 22, the Colorado State Forest Service requested an updated spot weather forecast from the National Weather Service. That forecast was completed on Friday at 4:16 a.m.

On Tuesday, 7NEWS asked the Colorado State Forest Service if it changed its mop-up and patrol plan based on the updated weather forecast that came out after the burn had taken place.

7NEWS received the following emailed response:

"Out of a respect for the independent review process that is underway, it's not appropriate for us to comment further on the prescribed burn plan."


"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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04 Apr 2012 22:20 #47 by jf1acai
Thanks for the constructive responses.

I am looking for additional constructive questions, particularly those which have not been brought up by the media, which I can add to an email I plan to send to the officials for consideration in their After Action Review. I believe this is necessary in order to learn from what happened on this fire so that response to future fires may be improved.

Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again - Jeanne Pincha-Tulley

Comprehensive is Latin for there is lots of bad stuff in it - Trey Gowdy

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05 Apr 2012 06:03 #48 by Mr Morningwood
Thanks Elk Creek for all of the help and support for the community

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05 Apr 2012 06:51 #49 by CC

Forest Service Timeline Reveals Call For Help, Evacuation Request

One of the documents reviewed by 7NEWS showed a handwritten log of events as the prescribed burn reignited and went out of control.

1:40 p.m.: "Slopover" noticed at prescribed burn site. Slopover refers to a fire outside of the prescribed burn area.

1:47 p.m.: Slopover growing, "We'll need resources."

1:48 p.m.: The decision to call North Fork and Elk Creek Fire is made.

1:50 p.m.: "1.5 acres and growing fast, need more resources."

2:15 p.m.: Another call for more resources.

2:30 p.m.: "Declared escape - Type 3 from JeffCo coming."

2:45 p.m.: "...More resources coming -- discussion about aircraft."

4:10 p.m.: Incident Commanders formulating a plan with the fire at 10-15 acres.

4:30 p.m.: "Type 3 team officially requested by Incident Commander."

4:40 p.m.: "Fire crossed drainage -- evacs requested for Kuehster and Pleasant Park Road."

Dispatch: "JeffCo 911."

Lucas: "Yes, this is Sam Lucas, we live up in the foothills and we just got home and looks like there's a fire right at the foot of Cathedral Spires…."

Dispatch: "That is a controlled burn. The (Colorado State) Forest Service is out there on scene with that."

Lucas: "Yeah, we got 79-mile an hour winds up here and they got a controlled burn?"

Dispatch: "Yes."

Lucas: "Oh wonderful. Thank you."

Dispatch: "Uh-huh. Bye."

Caller: ""There's fire beyond me. I'm on the asphalt; the trees are all burned around me. I'm probably in a safe spot. I'm in my driveway, the fire has burned through. I think I'm safe. My house may be burning, yes it is, -- damn it."

Another caller was concerned for her neighbor.

Dispatch: "Is there somebody trapped?"

Caller: "The driveway is on fire."

Dispatch: "The driveway's on fire?"

Caller: "And they don't even know. They don't even know because they live way back in the back."

Some people who called 911 ended up with a different jurisdiction answering the phone. One caller had to be transferred from a West Metro Fire Department dispatcher.

West Metro Fire Dispatcher: "I have Edgar on the line. He's stating he's at (address withheld) Eagle Vista Drive and he's stating that his house has just burned down."

Dispatch: "OK, yes. He, uh, is in the evacuation area. Is he OK?"

West Metro Fire Dispatcher: "Edgar, did you hear that?"

Edgar: "Yeah, we've evacuated."


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/30 ... etail.html

I am curious as to why the media provides time stamps for logs and other important dispatch info but I have not seen any time stamps for the 911 calls coming in.

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05 Apr 2012 07:08 #50 by akilina

Mr Morningwood wrote: Thanks Elk Creek for all of the help and support for the community


Mr Morningwood, I agree Thanks to Elk Creek and to all the other fire districts who responded for their help and support for the community. It is appreciated.

Providing constructive input which will give the fire districts some feedback from residents about issues, which this thread does, is important. I hope more will contribute their thoughts.

Thanks.

IN NOVEMBER 2014, WE HAVE A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO CLEAN OUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE AND ONE-THIRD OF THE SENATE! DONT BLOW IT!

“When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex. Only whit man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.” Indian Chief Two Eagles

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