France begins ban on full-face veil

A very small minority of Islamic women wear the veil. I'm sure the reasons vary for each. Once again I see women being targeted. No one tells men who grow veards for religious reasons that they must go clean shaven so as to be more easily identified. Almost all of thse laws in the west specifically target muslim women. This frees no one and doesn't increase safety. The overwhelming majority of violence in society is perpetrated by males.

chickaree wrote: The overwhelming majority of violence in society is perpetrated by males.

That's sexist!

But some wear veils... Not making it sexist at all, police looking for males, not women in veils, don't have time to source this, but there have been some women suicide murders. I think (sure I'll be corrected) that one of the biggest recently was a disco in Isreal, with what was left of the female suicide murder.

Ask away archer, please just don't turn a blind ear to the TRUTH!

Nobody that matters wrote:

chickaree wrote: The overwhelming majority of violence in society is perpetrated by males.

That's sexist!

No. That's true. Face it guys, if we carried this kind of profile to the logical conclusion all males betwwen 15 and 40 would be subject to restrictive laws. tongue:

archer wrote:

Rockdoc Franz wrote:
Lest you think that going covered is a requisite to being a Muslim woman, think again. There are many women in the ME who do not go covered and many in Saudi (where it is demanded) actively crusade against going covered.

nope, never thought that. I do think some women prefer to wear veils, I can't imagine why, but they do.

This is a fact. Have a friend who took his wife to Bahrain for a weekend. Women are not required to go fully covered there, yet his wife continued to do so. She felt exposed otherwise.

They should ban the veils especially for the Pilots.... LOL

chickaree wrote:

Nobody that matters wrote:

chickaree wrote: The overwhelming majority of violence in society is perpetrated by males.

That's sexist!

No. That's true. Face it guys, if we carried this kind of profile to the logical conclusion all males betwwen 15 and 40 would be subject to restrictive laws. tongue:

You know that going clean shaven is frowned upon in Islam? That being said, a beard alters an appearance, but does not hide one's entire face and remains distinctive for recognition purposes. The same can not be said for a mask or black veil. These do hide identity. So what is the logical conclusion?

Your argument distorts the issue. The French have a right to preserve their culture any way they wish and clearly they feel it being threatened now.

This has little to do with women's rights as you may wish to redirect this thread. Women elect to go veiled in France under the guise of it being demanded by their religion. We know this to be poppy cock. In addition, the whole practice of having women go fully covered in Saudi (so I'm told but don't believe it for a moment) is to protect the women. Every observation and experiences I've made over the past twenty years there (Saudi) indicates it has nothing to do with protecting as much as it has to do with controlling women.

Tell me chickaree, what do you really know about the practices of Islam by women?

downright un-american......

oh wait.....

France has done all kinds of wild things to preserve their culture (there was a minister of food for awhile - who was supposed to teach French students how to find fresh food at the open market.....).

If not wearing a veil - or buying food at the open market defines what it means to be French - then I suppose that's France's perogative to defend its sense of superiority.........

(I'm not going to tell France how to be French).

That said - I think the anti-veil initiative is kind of silly.

Around half of the women PREFER it that way (granted, some don't).

Most of the Muslim women that I worked with in my limited 4 years in Arabia did NOT veil their face. (90 percent). Half of those that did cover - preferred to cover (usually protection) - and half did so to respect family wishes (they might be considered a little slutty if they did not cover).

My identity and sense of self is in no way impacted by anyone's choice to cover. I don't think it's a big deal. Then again - I have no problems drinking wine from a box --- so I'm obviously not a good Frenchman.

I know what I've learned from family members who have spent time in the middle east as well as from a muslim co worker. Am I an expert? By no means, but as a woman of faith myself I object when I see other faithful women's rights infringed on even when their faith os different from my own. Do you not think that a fake beard, sunglasses and a hat effectively hides ones identity as well as a veil without drawing the same degree of attention? This is an attack on religion, pure and simple. Now I am not an expert on the French constitution either, but the passage of these laws lead me to believe that it does not extend the same protections to the freedom to practice ones religion that ours does. For this I am especially thankful to be an American citizen.