NSA collecting records from millions of phones daily

I love this paragraph that is filled with weasel words...

"Guantanamo is still open for business. News agencies are being targeted as part of a crackdown on whistleblowers," said Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The expanded use of drones, and now a massive surveillance program affecting millions of Americans raise the question as to whether the president's rhetoric is fundamentally out of step with his policies and actions."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

What??? "fundamentally out of step with his policies and actions"... no... they are outright LIES.

LadyJazzer wrote: Yeah, that was terrible about that ol' [ridiculously-named] "USA Patriot Act", and all of the warrantless, illegal wiretaps that started 7 years ago...And the number of briefings of the Congressional intelligence committees; and the number of reauthorizations, in the last 7 years; and the 100% participation of the Republicans on every vote...including every attempt to curtail the power, and shut down the programs.....

Deflect much? Aren't you yet tired of attempting to conflate two non-equivalents? Data on who called whom and how long the calls lasted isn't wiretapping. Wiretapping is listening to the conversations taking place without those involved knowing that they are being listened to. I understand, and agree with, the objection to the ability to listen to a private conversation absent court approval and oversight beforehand. That is not what is being discussed here regardless of how many times anyone wishes to attempt to expand what is being discussed to include it.

No, what is being talked about here is the government collecting the billing data that Verizon and the other carriers compile each and every month. Data that all of us know was being collected because we get a statement from our provider each and every month which shows the calls we made, the number that was called and the duration of that call. The federal government is getting that data from the providers and plugging it into a algorithm that is capable of determining whether or not there is a pattern to the calls that is noteworthy and raises concerns. A pattern such as the same 10 people join into a conference call at approximately the same time every week after one of them calls a certain number attached to a jihadist mullah in Khandihar.

I see no issue with such an effort. I see no invasion of anyone's privacy in such an effort. All of us already knew that the information was being collected and stored, we saw it on our statements from our provider each and every month. We knew that information wasn't private already, didn't we?

Now, certainly, an administration who wished to "punish their enemies" (having the IRS conduct audits of those who contributed to their rivals and groups associated with a rival ideology coming under special scrutiny from that department of government) would also be capable of using this data for nefarious purposes as well, but that doesn't establish by default that the purpose of the data collection is actually nefarious, does it?

And for those on the "blame Bush" bandwagon...

On May 26, 2011, President Barack Obama signed the PATRIOT Sunsets Extension Act of 2011,[2] a four-year extension of three key provisions in the USA PATRIOT Act:[3] roving wiretaps, searches of business records (the "library records provision"), and conducting surveillance of "lone wolves" — individuals suspected of terrorist-related activities not linked to terrorist groups.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

Bush may have started it... but Obama has been the fuel to keep it going.

Heh...

Reporting from Washington — Acting with minutes to spare, President Obama approved a four-year extension of expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, after Congress overcame mounting opposition from both parties to narrowly avoid a lapse in the terrorist surveillance law.

Conservative Republicans, many of them elected with backing from the "tea party" movement, and liberal Democrats resisted attempts to extend the three expiring provisions of the act.

Dramatizing the debate this week, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) held up Senate floor proceedings to protest what he characterized as an unconstitutional overreach by the federal government into private affairs.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/27 ... t-20110527

In the nick of time.

Blazer Bob wrote: Many have always known that republicans are too evil to be entrusted with power. Now we face the fact that not even a brilliant, benign constitutional scholar like President Obama can handle it.

Isn't it time to admit the they we need to reduce the size, power and scope of government?

No, it's time to admit that after briefing Congress 13 times on the scope of the program, they're all running for cover and either saying, "I didn't know what I was voting for", or "I didn't even know about it", or "Yes, and it was the right thing to do."

This, (allegedly), is about the undeniable trade-off between security and privacy... (You know.... The ones the Republicans ALWAYS vote 100% for....)

That's not about "size of government"... (No matter how much the anti-government/anti-tax zealots say it is...)

LadyJazzer wrote:

Blazer Bob wrote: Many have always known that republicans are too evil to be entrusted with power. Now we face the fact that not even a brilliant, benign constitutional scholar like President Obama can handle it.

Isn't it time to admit the they we need to reduce the size, power and scope of government?

No, it's time to admit that after briefing Congress 13 times on the scope of the program, they're all running for cover and either saying, "I didn't know what I was voting for", or "I didn't even know about it", or "Yes, and it was the right thing to do."

This (allegedly) is about the undeniable trade-off between security and privacy... (You know.... The ones the Republicans ALWAYS vote 100% for....)

That's not about "size of government"... (No matter how much the anti-government/anti-tax zealots say it is...)

A small government wouldn't be able to undertake such a large scaled data gathering operation.

Oh... and Obama thought it was the right thing to do too... he signed the extension of the Patriot Act.

But thanks for playing.

911 is being used as the reason. It is time to "END" the "WAR" on terror as far as giving the president the power to do whatever. The official campaign in Iraq is over. Time to rescind Congress's declaration and end it. Bush started it and to my great disbelief, a Democrat has not only continued it, he has expanded it. The hawk in Obama is very disappointing to a liberal like me.

Wily Fox aka Angela wrote: 911 is being used as the reason. It is time to "END" the "WAR" on terror as far as giving the president the power to do whatever. The official campaign in Iraq is over. Time to rescind Congress's declaration and end it. Bush started it and to my great disbelief, a Democrat has not only continued it, he has expanded it. The hawk in Obama is very disappointing to a liberal like me.

EXACTLY!!!!

:thumbsup:

Wily Fox aka Angela wrote: 911 is being used as the reason. It is time to "END" the "WAR" on terror as far as giving the president the power to do whatever. The official campaign in Iraq is over. Time to rescind Congress's declaration and end it. Bush started it and to my great disbelief, a Democrat has not only continued it, he has expanded it. The hawk in Obama is very disappointing to a liberal like me.

It is time to wake up and smell the roses. Democrats are people too.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dalbe ... aron_Acton

Until we learn to breed saints this will be true.

I believe that people who are anti-government are called anarchists. I am not an anarchist. I do believe that when we have a government that is powerful enough to exercise tyrannical powers, they will.

agreed! we have to work hard to keep checks and balances. The cable "news" shows distract us into stupid arguments among ourselves (they have to hype everything, they are on 24/7, what the hell else are they going to rant about?) and then we lose sight of what is really going on.