Vote no on 4A

Replied by LadyJazzer on topic Vote no on 4A

You wanna try that "senior-citizen on a fixed-income and the pennies will make me lose my mortgage because I didn't plan ahead for catastrophic health crises..." That one didn't go very far, did it? But I think you were having more luck with it.
24 Sep 2013 21:48 #81

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Replied by LadyJazzer on topic Vote no on 4A

WindPeak wrote: . But do you really think with your abusive nature anyone takes you seriously or that you provide anything relevant to the discussion?


Do you really think I CARE what YOU think...? You've already shown your hand, "new kid."
Last edit: 25 Sep 2013 13:05 by LadyJazzer.
24 Sep 2013 21:49 #82

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Replied by KINCAIDSPRINGS on topic Vote no on 4A

Geez LadyJazzer even I am confused about where you stand.

So let me answer the comment about the salaries. The Mill Levy increase is for trucks correct? They have to come ask for money to buy trucks because of poor budgetary control across the board. Poor budgetary control includes giving significant raises to several people when you are crying for more money.

Kindof like shopping at the food bank and then stopping at Starbucks.

I am not giving you any secondary byline about living on a fixed income. I am not that old. However with the economic challenges the past few years, even standard working class are on "fixed incomes" as they haven't has raises. With tax based spending there are some rules. Some of those rules have been violated. The links to several pieces of information were posted. They shed a lot of details that go beyond the gimme gimmes

Lets take a look at the flyer the "friends of Elk Creek" are handing out.
In that flyer there is a chart that shows Elk Creek at the bottom of the chart for Mill Levy amounts. What that chart doesn't show you is the community valuations or the total tax dollars collected by those "high mill levy" districts. First take the suburban communities out of it. you cant compare Littleton to Lakewood to Conifer. Completely different population base. Now lets look at the surrounding area.
Coal Creek at 8.0 and Goldengate at 9.01 Those high mill levy rates bring in about 150 to 175k for those departments. Northfork at 12.00 gets about 350k. Elk Creek at the "lowest" gets about 1.6 million currently. Do you see the difference? do you see why people should dig deeper and ask more questions.

When you produce a chart that puts us at the bottom people feel bad, we don't want to be on the bottom right? However when you assign the total valuations and the income to that mill levy, we are near the top. If the "Friends of Elk Creek" made that chart, it would defeat the message of disparity they are trying to convey.


You cant believe everything you read and hear. Investigate for yourself. Be the defender of our laws, rules, constitution that our forefathers wanted everyone to be. It is ok to disagree. progress is made from disagreement. But know that you are disagreeing about.
24 Sep 2013 22:28 #83

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Replied by Venturer on topic Vote no on 4A

KINCAIDSPRINGS wrote: Geez LadyJazzer even I am confused about where you stand.

So let me answer the comment about the salaries. The Mill Levy increase is for trucks correct? They have to come ask for money to buy trucks because of poor budgetary control across the board. Poor budgetary control includes giving significant raises to several people when you are crying for more money.

Kindof like shopping at the food bank and then stopping at Starbucks.

I am not giving you any secondary byline about living on a fixed income. I am not that old. However with the economic challenges the past few years, even standard working class are on "fixed incomes" as they haven't has raises. With tax based spending there are some rules. Some of those rules have been violated. The links to several pieces of information were posted. They shed a lot of details that go beyond the gimme gimmes

Lets take a look at the flyer the "friends of Elk Creek" are handing out.
In that flyer there is a chart that shows Elk Creek at the bottom of the chart for Mill Levy amounts. What that chart doesn't show you is the community valuations or the total tax dollars collected by those "high mill levy" districts. First take the suburban communities out of it. you cant compare Littleton to Lakewood to Conifer. Completely different population base. Now lets look at the surrounding area.
Coal Creek at 8.0 and Goldengate at 9.01 Those high mill levy rates bring in about 150 to 175k for those departments. Northfork at 12.00 gets about 350k. Elk Creek at the "lowest" gets about 1.6 million currently. Do you see the difference? do you see why people should dig deeper and ask more questions.

When you produce a chart that puts us at the bottom people feel bad, we don't want to be on the bottom right? However when you assign the total valuations and the income to that mill levy, we are near the top. If the "Friends of Elk Creek" made that chart, it would defeat the message of disparity they are trying to convey.


You cant believe everything you read and hear. Investigate for yourself. Be the defender of our laws, rules, constitution that our forefathers wanted everyone to be. It is ok to disagree. progress is made from disagreement. But know that you are disagreeing about.


Thanks for the information KS. I will have to look at it.

The flyer that you speak of was also used by Chief McLaughlin at his meeting with the Conifer Chamber of Commerce videotaped by SC. No mention as to how much money ECFD receives in comparison to other districts.

Another thing he did say that raised flags is that the rating was going to go up w/o the yes vote. He never mentioned that it would more than likely go up no matter what.

But them I must remember he represents the District and not necessarily my best interests.
25 Sep 2013 12:47 #84

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Replied by FriendsofElkCreekFire on topic Vote no on 4A

If you'd like to know assessed values and revenue comparisons with surrounding districts, we're happy to provide that information as well.

KINCAIDSPRINGS wrote: Lets take a look at the flyer the "friends of Elk Creek" are handing out.
In that flyer there is a chart that shows Elk Creek at the bottom of the chart for Mill Levy amounts. What that chart doesn't show you is the community valuations or the total tax dollars collected by those "high mill levy" districts. First take the suburban communities out of it. you cant compare Littleton to Lakewood to Conifer. Completely different population base. Now lets look at the surrounding area.
Coal Creek at 8.0 and Goldengate at 9.01 Those high mill levy rates bring in about 150 to 175k for those departments. Northfork at 12.00 gets about 350k. Elk Creek at the "lowest" gets about 1.6 million currently. Do you see the difference? do you see why people should dig deeper and ask more questions.

When you produce a chart that puts us at the bottom people feel bad, we don't want to be on the bottom right? However when you assign the total valuations and the income to that mill levy, we are near the top. If the "Friends of Elk Creek" made that chart, it would defeat the message of disparity they are trying to convey.


You cant believe everything you read and hear. Investigate for yourself. Be the defender of our laws, rules, constitution that our forefathers wanted everyone to be. It is ok to disagree. progress is made from disagreement. But know that you are disagreeing about.

Everyone cares about Return on Investment, right? Here's a comparison of what you pay per call compared to surrounding districts and you'll see that you get the best value for your money with Elk Creek Fire.
File Attachment:


Uploaded with [url=http://imageshack.us:9tjnbmrz]ImageShack.us[/url]
Website: friendsofelkcreek.org/
Friends of Elk Creek Fire Facebook Page
Our YouTube Channel
Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Vote YES on the Elk Creek Fire Protection District mill levy on the November 2019 ballot!
25 Sep 2013 13:15 #85

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Replied by ScienceChic on topic Vote no on 4A

WindPeak wrote: Another thing he did say that raised flags is that the rating was going to go up w/o the yes vote. He never mentioned that it would more than likely go up no matter what.

But them I must remember he represents the District and not necessarily my best interests.

That's not true at all, the Chief absolutely did say that it would go up no matter what in his presentation at the Conifer Chamber Public Affairs Meeting held September 17th, and I posted that very information on Sept 19th at 5:22pm on my 2nd post of page 1 of this very thread .

Here's the video, he explains it starting at the 10:00 minute mark (you're looking especially for what he says at 10:50):
[youtube:lnkg9ht1]
[/youtube:lnkg9ht1]

If you'd like to learn more in great detail about what all is involved in the ISO ratings, see the Chief's Report during the June 2013 Elk Creek Fire Protection District BOD Meeting, starting at minute 4:40 and going to minute 28:38:
[youtube:lnkg9ht1]
[/youtube:lnkg9ht1]

Edit to add: I just saw that this was also reported in Daniel Laverty's article published in the High Timber Times yesterday: http://www.hightimbertimes.com/content/ ... two-events
The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh
25 Sep 2013 13:49 #86

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Replied by ForestFellow on topic Vote no on 4A

I’m sorry, but the vast majority of the people I’ve spoken with, and most everything I’ve read supports the mill levy increase for the fire department. Scrolling through this thread it as if to some people, it doesn’t matter what the facts are, it doesn’t matter what the needs of the community are, they’re going to rail against the fire department.

What’s sad is that while these folks seem so blinded by hate, if they were in need; I bet that same fire department they so despise would come to their aid. I bet volunteer firefighters they’ve never meet, would risk their lives to help them, to get them to safety, to take them to a hospital, to see them returned to health, so they could return to their computers to spread more hate.

Sad.
25 Sep 2013 14:03 #87

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Replied by OhSuzanna on topic Vote no on 4A

on that note wrote: I call BS on the insurance increases. If that was the case, it would imply that insurance companies could make more money by banding together and starting private fire houses in places like CO so that they can save money. This is a threat like the credit rating. Using fear of private fees to get you to pay even more to the govt. to avoid them. The math does not work, someone is harvesting money if in fact insurance rates go down more than taxes go up.

Also, what happened to paying your own way? The insurance companies charge you based on the risk and the competition they have. The govt will charge you based on your homes value. If you own a nice home in a practical place (well protected from fire), you could pay more than someone who built in a risky location. That makes about as much sense as asking your neighbor to pay for your kid's education so you still have enough money to go on vacation.


Folks, I recommend that we all start having some serious conversations with our insurance companies. I recently did a re-fi on my home and my agent (and several other companies I talked to) used something called a "risk rating" to assess the amount of fuel/trees around the buildings. ISO was never mentioned. I am pretty sure that "fire ratings" have gone the way of the dinosaur.

Then I read this article that touches on the subject.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... s-colorado
25 Sep 2013 14:35 #88

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Replied by Venturer on topic Vote no on 4A

I'm sorry but the vast majority of the people I've spoken with, and most everything I've read does not support the mill levy increase for the fire department.

What is really sad is that a few folks want to take from overstrapped taxpayers who haven't had any raises to pay for these increases. I don't see any blinded hate but genuine concern for their community.

ForestFellow wrote: I’m sorry, but the vast majority of the people I’ve spoken with, and most everything I’ve read supports the mill levy increase for the fire department. Scrolling through this thread it as if to some people, it doesn’t matter what the facts are, it doesn’t matter what the needs of the community are, they’re going to rail against the fire department.

What’s sad is that while these folks seem so blinded by hate, if they were in need; I bet that same fire department they so despise would come to their aid. I bet volunteer firefighters they’ve never meet, would risk their lives to help them, to get them to safety, to take them to a hospital, to see them returned to health, so they could return to their computers to spread more hate.

Sad.


SC thank you for your information. I will go back and look at what Chief said. Do you agree though that he did provide the same information that Friends of Elk Creek are using showing ECFD at the bottom and not showing how much money they are receiving?
25 Sep 2013 16:20 #89

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Replied by Venturer on topic Vote no on 4A

Friends of Elk Creek Fire wrote: If you'd like to know assessed values and revenue comparisons with surrounding districts, we're happy to provide that information as well.

KINCAIDSPRINGS wrote: Lets take a look at the flyer the "friends of Elk Creek" are handing out.
In that flyer there is a chart that shows Elk Creek at the bottom of the chart for Mill Levy amounts. What that chart doesn't show you is the community valuations or the total tax dollars collected by those "high mill levy" districts. First take the suburban communities out of it. you cant compare Littleton to Lakewood to Conifer. Completely different population base. Now lets look at the surrounding area.
Coal Creek at 8.0 and Goldengate at 9.01 Those high mill levy rates bring in about 150 to 175k for those departments. Northfork at 12.00 gets about 350k. Elk Creek at the "lowest" gets about 1.6 million currently. Do you see the difference? do you see why people should dig deeper and ask more questions.

When you produce a chart that puts us at the bottom people feel bad, we don't want to be on the bottom right? However when you assign the total valuations and the income to that mill levy, we are near the top. If the "Friends of Elk Creek" made that chart, it would defeat the message of disparity they are trying to convey.


You cant believe everything you read and hear. Investigate for yourself. Be the defender of our laws, rules, constitution that our forefathers wanted everyone to be. It is ok to disagree. progress is made from disagreement. But know that you are disagreeing about.

Everyone cares about Return on Investment, right? Here's a comparison of what you pay per call compared to surrounding districts and you'll see that you get the best value for your money with Elk Creek Fire.
File Attachment:


Uploaded with [url=http://imageshack.us:3ntaox2y]ImageShack.us[/url]


And of course Friends of Elk Creek didn't provide this until KS questioned it. Looks like ECFD sits pretty nicely on the taxes they get from taxpayers.

Just how greedy has ECFD become?

My opinion of Friends and the Chief says to me that they clearly represent the District and not the people. Forget honorable. But then I knew that with the biased, sloppily written Tabor question.
25 Sep 2013 16:32 #90

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