Vote no on 4A

IMHO a case for ANY increases, especially in a DEPRESSION, by any citizen funded entity
should be founded on a zero based budget estimate. This is common business practice FYI...and used by many local government entities.

So far this thread is but obfuscations and unrelated mush. Possibly this TAX INCREASE request is actually based on a detailed estimate that can be published(and audited)....a start.

Once the zero based estimate is certified by management an outside commercial audit is prudent. IF approved by the taxpayers routine performance reports to the estimate baseline should be put on a dedicated www site with FULL disclosure and also commercial firm audits.

Otherwise the taxpayers are just letting the clerks have a blank check.....imprudent is an understatement.
This level of transparency and ACCOUNTABILITY would have possibly prevented DETRIOT......

SC in response to your post w/o quoting all of it, Chief McLaughlin in the video seems to be an honorable man. I like him as a person. But he is just like the used car salesman. He can say or puff all he wants. The B/D makes the decisions and maybe the Chief has a vote or maybe he doesn't. I don't know how they run things now. But no matter what anybody says at any time, they could promise you the moon, look at the written Tabor question. Nowhere does it say that it limits itself to what the Chief talked about. The Tabor question gives the Board or whomever makes the final decisions a blank check to do anything they choose.

Also in the video the Chief talks about more volunteers and more equipment for them and pensions. No one has shown me the next 10 years of pensions so more than likely there will be quite a few over the next 10 years since it is for life. Nominal they may seem but add up to quite a bit. It is all the additional expenses that are putting many fire districts, as well as other cities, counties, etc. in jeopardy. ECFD has mismanaged in the recent past and seem ready to go full tilt recruiting more volunteers, equipment, etc. And because of how Tabor is worded they just might decide to hire full time. You give the Board that right when you vote yes. You have no guarantees that what the Chief says will happen. You only have the guarantee of what is written in the Tabor question. Vote NO as it is written. Do a rewrite being very specific as to what is asked for and then vote on it at a later time. The legalese is what rules in the Tabor question not what anyone else tells you. Be an intelligent voter and vote NO.

Did you see the video of the night he got mad and broke the camera at the Board meeting? It was an awesome display of leadership under pressure.

And while we are talking about leadership, The Chief has been gone for a significant portion of the summer working on federal fire for other jurisdictions.( according to The Friends of Elk Creek after missing some speaking engagements) If Elk Creek did ok without him, I think you just found your budget savings! Go back to volunteer leadership and save 100K a year!

Multiply any salary FTE by 1.4 to get the true cost to the taxpayer. ADD to that expenses....bet he costs the taxpayer at least $125K a year.....

Science Chic wrote:
No, he has not been gone a "significant" portion of the summer, and every time he's gone the taxpayers pay $0.00 for his salary (which isn't even close to $100K either, but nice stretch).

75K plus benefits, unemployment insurance, payroll taxes = about 100k. And that doesn't include the take home vehicle and fuel.

This isn't an attack. No more of an attack than you are pushing forward on my bank account. I still stand my ground on I have to balance my budget with the funds available. They should do the same.

PS... how come when a "ex firefighter" speaks up at a board meeting he is disgruntled. Don't most of these "ex firefighters" live in the district? That would make them educated taxpayers correct? The average homeowner is not going to show up and ask in depth questions because they won't necessarily know the issues below the surface.

Science Chic wrote:

KINCAIDSPRINGS wrote: Did you see the video of the night he got mad and broke the camera at the Board meeting? It was an awesome display of leadership under pressure.

And while we are talking about leadership, The Chief has been gone for a significant portion of the summer working on federal fire for other jurisdictions.( according to The Friends of Elk Creek after missing some speaking engagements) If Elk Creek did ok without him, I think you just found your budget savings! Go back to volunteer leadership and save 100K a year!

Really? That's my camera and it's not broken. There was one night that I had to leave early and was missing the piece that snaps the camera into the tripod so I just set it on the top and forgot to tell him it wasn't secure because I'd asked him to turn it off and bring it to the Conifer Chamber breakfast membership meeting the next morning that we'd both be at (I even knocked it off myself before I left the meeting). The next morning, the first thing he did was apologize and hoped it wasn't broken, which it wasn't, it just messed up the recording of that meeting. Nor have I ever witnessed the Chief get mad, even when being harassed and accused unprofessionally at public board meetings by former firefighters with personal gripes.

No, he has not been gone a "significant" portion of the summer, and every time he's gone the taxpayers pay $0.00 for his salary (which isn't even close to $100K either, but nice stretch). And he feels comfortable leaving because as he's said, he has absolute faith in the capabilities of the personnel at the department, and he goes when it's safe to leave here; that by no means indicates that the department should suffer with a lack of leadership - we've seen what happens when we've got crappy leaders in there.

Would you like to discuss the merits and facts of the mill levy now, instead of making personal attacks on the Chief?

Wow...Another "manufactured outrage" debunked... Imagine my surprise... Well, when you don't have anything other than anti-tax zealotry and rage, and damned few actual FACTS to back any of it up, then I guess you start manufacturing personal attacks based on events that never happened.

LadyJazzer wrote: Wow...Another "manufactured outrage" debunked... Imagine my surprise... Well, when you don't have anything other than anti-tax zealotry and rage, and damned few actual FACTS to back any of it up, then I guess you start manufacturing personal attacks based on events that never happened.

Just like the ones claiming Dolan was CONVICTED of fraud.... that never happened either.

I keep trying to bring it back around to the district finances and the appropriate budgetary care. What detailed facts would you like? I am happy to give you all you ask for. I have already done my homework.

Need a fact to calm the waters?

How about 3/4 of the ambulance personnel getting 9-10% raises? That is a real thing. In a budgetary crisis, awarding that kind of money is significant. Then add to that the amount of overtime awarded to those employees and the costs grow and grow and grow. There would be little to no savings from the employee layoff, when it is awarded to the other employees.

GO UNION wrote: I disagree with Kinkaid Springs, Elk Creek Fire has proven that they need these increases to maintain high level of service. It should be a done deal with new leadership and true professionals at the wheel. I'm afraid some may hesitate to vote yes like myself based on the past, who was convicted of fraud ? who allowed this ? I think the voters need to know that this illegal activity is in the past before they vote YES. If this is the case I will vote yes without question!

So you are a union guy then? I am pretty new up here and don't know any of the details. Did people from Elk Creek go to jail? Did they have budget shortfall when there were other Chiefs? Is Elk Creek Union based? ( seems weird for a volunteer department how do they pull that off?)

KINCAIDSPRINGS wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: Wow...Another "manufactured outrage" debunked... Imagine my surprise... Well, when you don't have anything other than anti-tax zealotry and rage, and damned few actual FACTS to back any of it up, then I guess you start manufacturing personal attacks based on events that never happened.

Just like the ones claiming Dolan was CONVICTED of fraud.... that never happened either.

I keep trying to bring it back around to the district finances and the appropriate budgetary care. What detailed facts would you like? I am happy to give you all you ask for. I have already done my homework.

Need a fact to calm the waters?

How about 3/4 of the ambulance personnel getting 9-10% raises? That is a real thing. In a budgetary crisis, awarding that kind of money is significant. Then add to that the amount of overtime awarded to those employees and the costs grow and grow and grow. There would be little to no savings from the employee layoff, when it is awarded to the other employees.

Gee, if ambulance personnel salaries were the topic of conversation, and what we will be voting on with 4A, I'd give a rat's patoot... But since it isn't................... :snooze

Deflect much?

Oh, and I've already heard the one about "senior-citizen on a fixed-income and the pennies will make me lose my mortgage because I didn't plan ahead for catastrophic health crises..." That one didn't go very far, did it?