Vote no on 4A

Sticking to the facts. The pension fund is a state run entity that departments choose to be a part of...

here is the link to their site
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/DO ... 1594523153

It should also be noted that volunteers must be deemed eligible by the pension board and have a proved record of 10 years of "in good standing service". There are requirements to meet this criteria and it is based on the amount of training and calls responded.

I checked the 2012 budget for Elk Creek

http://www.elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Announ ... Review.pdf

It shows volunteer pensions are costing the department $50k a year and aren't going up. If you consider that Elk Creek has to replace a fire engine that can cost upwards of $500K and replace a couple of tenders that could go for $300K each, and add an ambulance replacement in a couple of years and it looks to me like arguing about the expense of volunteer pensions is missing the point.

IMHO...another tax increase might be a little easier to swallow if mountain residents weren't already facing more "fees" from the 18-member state task force who is moving "closer to developing a plan to rate the wildfire damage for homes in forested areas, including assessing possible fees..."

and Hick's BILLION DOLLAR TAX HIKE (you know, the one to bail out PERA).

The working serfs here in Colorado are just simply tapped out.

Tabor Question with 10 Year Expiration - What you will be voting on.
http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Welcome_fi ... estion.pdf

If you'd like to read additional documentation: http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Announcements.html
Here are a few at that link:
-2012 Audited Financial Statements:
http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Announceme ... ements.pdf

-2011, 2012, 2013 Financial Review:
http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Announceme ... Review.pdf

-FAQs:
http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Announceme ... s/FAQs.pdf

-Level of Service Committee Recommendations July 2013:
http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Announceme ... ly2013.pdf

-2012 Chief Annual Report:
http://elkcreekfire.org/ECFD/Announceme ... Report.pdf

Im baaaack wrote: IMHO...another tax increase might be a little easier to swallow if mountain residents weren't already facing more "fees" from the 18-member state task force who is moving "closer to developing a plan to rate the wildfire damage for homes in forested areas, including assessing possible fees..."

and Hick's BILLION DOLLAR TAX HIKE (you know, the one to bail out PERA).

The working serfs here in Colorado are just simply tapped out.

Brother I hear ya! I am so sick of paying taxes and watching the government piss away the money...........

But please try and remember this isn't the Federal Government, this isn't the State Government, it isn't even the County Government: This is our local fire department, and we need these folks.

The only thing standing between one of us losing our house to the next lightening strike is Elk Creek Fire Department, and I want them to be ready, and have the tools they need to do the job.

Let's not save $6 a month only to become the next Black Forest.

Elk Creek Fire is looking for a 50% raise this tax season. I haven't had a raise in 4 years. I have learned to live within my means, why cant they. We have ALL had flat budgets. Why should a spending problem internally become a funding problem externally.


If Elk Creek needs Capital Improvements, why didn't they go for a bond? At least then they could be held accountable.

Kincaid Springs started this conversation with the above quote. 50% raise??? There is no governmental record of when the mil was last increased for Elk Creek. We do know there has not been an increase since TABOR was instituted in 1992.

Using government data on pay increases since 1992, the average person has earned a 69.32% increase in pay. Here is the link to this data: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html

Seems they are due for an increase. I think the argument is over! The facts speak for themselves.

wendapooh wrote:

Elk Creek Fire is looking for a 50% raise this tax season. I haven't had a raise in 4 years. I have learned to live within my means, why cant they. We have ALL had flat budgets. Why should a spending problem internally become a funding problem externally.


If Elk Creek needs Capital Improvements, why didn't they go for a bond? At least then they could be held accountable.

Kincaid Springs started this conversation with the above quote. 50% raise??? There is no governmental record of when the mil was last increased for Elk Creek. We do know there has not been an increase since TABOR was instituted in 1992.

Using government data on pay increases since 1992, the average person has earned a 69.32% increase in pay. Here is the link to this data: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html

Seems they are due for an increase. I think the argument is over! The facts speak for themselves.

While I am inclined to support the increase, I think your reasoning is flawed unless you factor in the change of property values since 1992.

I believe the pension for a 10 year ECFD retiree is about $200 per month. Most volunteers burn lots of their own money in fuel, and general wear and tear on their vehicles responding to calls during their 10 years working toward a pension. My neighbor is a volunteer there. He puts in many hundreds of hours of his personal time protecting my family and neighbors and he does it for no pay of any kind. In fact I know he also buys his own tools like lights, and boots. He keeps a pager under his pillow every night and is waken up by every call that comes in after bed time (as per his wife). Outrageous pensions? I don't think so. That is a very small carrot that all volunteer fire departments hold out in front of their members. Only a very, very small percentage of volunteers last 10 years so for the most part they never see any pension money anyway.

Nobody wants to pay more taxes. But this is one I will support. This is a local tax that we will see the direct benefit from. Will our insurance rates go up even if 4A passes? Maybe. But it is still a good investment that I think will probably lower the likelyhood of insurance rates going up. Or at least keep them from going up as much as they probably would if 4A doesn't pass.

Positively well stated, along with DoublePlay. Without all the input lately, I planned on voting FOR the increase months ago. That's it.

Huh? it was 8-6 with the No's winning and within an hour it was 16-8 with the Yes's winning. It looks like the entire Elk Creek Fire department logged on to vote for themselves. This is no longer an acurate poll. Anyway, I voted YES because as a union man I always want to get more money and benefits to the people, I just don't want my money going towards the making of anymore of those gay calenders..I'm ok with a new flat screen or chili pot for the firehouse, but no more calenders please

#enoughalready