Don't Ask, Don't Tell is Over

PrintSmith wrote: I think that came from your fellow Chief attempting to quote part of what I said and somehow ending up with it being attributed to you. I'm not sure how to fix it at this point Chief, so I guess I will simply say that the post attributed to you that you are referring to is mine and mine alone.

Thanks for confirming that a homosexual violated the regulations of the service branch they were enlisting in when the volunteered to serve in the armed forces and that they were in violation of the existing regulations from the moment they put their signature at the bottom of the enlistment papers. FWIW, I don't blame them for taking advantage of the loophole that Clinton created with his EO that came to be known as DADT. I actually have a lot of respect for their willingness to risk being kicked out in order to serve their nation and wish that the political "leadership" of the nation had a fraction of their integrity and devotion to the nation.

I also have a lot more respect for the elected representatives who voted to change the regulations than I do for the ones who decided that the end around them that Clinton created was an acceptable solution politically (though in many instances they are the same ones, but I digress). It essentially said that it was OK to violate the laws on the books in the military so long as you weren't caught doing so. Not exactly the type of message you want to instill in the folks who are charged with protecting our liberties and our nation in my opinion.

Thanks PS, I knew it could not be me, I don't write that clearly and usually don't express things that neatly. Anyway, what Clinton did was make a decision without thinking about changing the regulations and UCMJ. It was a direct contradiction to each other. But like I have said, for the most part we were to busy making sure that our gear was up to help the ship complete the mission. That was our bottom line.

Is there actually a law that says you can't be gay in the military...or is it you can't act gay in the military?

lionshead2010 wrote: I'm disappointed but not surprised by this decision. It had become a politically correct battle cry to overturn Don't Ask, Don't Tell. As a retired career Army officer with nearly 30 years of service and combat tours I think this was a big mistake and we will see why when the services try to put it in play.

Now that it's overturned, I hope the services at least go slowly into this thing so they can put policies in place to support an openly gay lifestyle in the military. There are many second and third order effects that have not been considered and numerous policies and procedures that must be modified BEFORE this thing can work successfully. The Army and Marines need time to educate their soldiers, marines and leaders too.

There are new questions now about "military dependents" and benefits. I guess as long as gays can't legally marry in most places it won't be an issue, but once that goes through (only a matter of time before the whole nation embraces this too) the military will have to take a new approach to providing the various benefits to newly defined "military dependents".

I know, the PC crowd could give a hoot about the impact on the military or readiness. They want it done yesterday it seems. My hope is that cooler heads will approach this thing carefully and take it slow or we may succeed in breaking one of the few things that seems to be getting it right in our society....the US military.

This is about as accurate as it will get. If they do try to just do it, it will not work and it will cause alot of bad problems that can be avoided. The last thing that needs to happen is to have it crammed down thier throats.

Can a soldier be fat and be in the military? It's not his fault he likes cheeseburgers. He was born with fat genes.

And that is as it should be and it will one day be that way with the change in the regulations that is on its way to the President's desk for his signature. Won't happen overnight any more than the racial integration happened overnight. Cultures take time to adapt. I remember a line that John Amos had as Admiral Fitzwallace in the show "West Wing" -

The problem with that is that's what they were saying about me 50 years ago - blacks shouldn't serve with whites. It would disrupt the unit. You know what? It did disrupt the unit. The unit got over it. The unit changed. I'm an admiral in the U.S. Navy and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff... Beat that with a stick.

A lot of wisdom lies inside of those lines. This, too, will initially disrupt the units, but the units will get over it and they will adapt and change to conform to the new reality, just as they have always done because the people who serve in our armed forces are generally people of high character who understand that they are there for one reason and one reason only. To protect the freedom and liberty of their fellow citizens and to defend their nation from all threats, foreign and domestic. I have more faith in the men and women of our armed forces as a whole than I do in any of the branches of the federal government as a whole. And while I am sure there are a few bad apples mixed in there with the rest of them, as there is in any gathering of people, I can honestly say that I have yet to meet one face to face. To a person they have been individuals of high character that I have been honored to have the privilege of meeting. I don't expect that to change one bit simply because the regulations regarding sexual orientation are about to change, and for the better in my opinion.

archer wrote: Is there actually a law that says you can't be gay in the military...or is it you can't act gay in the military?

bring up the UCMJ read article 125. Should answer your question.

residenttroll wrote: Can a soldier be fat and be in the military? It's not his fault he likes cheeseburgers. I was born with fat genes.

Answer = NO. If one is overweight and not within standards then one is not even allowed to enlist without making sufficient progress towards goal. If one is serving and becomes out of standards they are given a timeframe to get back into standards or be discharged. (Some do slip through the cracks though)

archer wrote: Is there actually a law that says you can't be gay in the military...or is it you can't act gay in the military?

It is an actual law -
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/654.html

navycpo7 wrote:

residenttroll wrote: Can a soldier be fat and be in the military? It's not his fault he likes cheeseburgers. I was born with fat genes.

Answer = NO. If one is overweight and not within standards then one is not even allowed to enlist without making sufficient progress towards goal. If one is serving and becomes out of standards they are given a timeframe to get back into standards or be discharged. (Some do slip through the cracks though)

That's unfair...that's discrimination of fat people.

PrintSmith wrote:

archer wrote: Is there actually a law that says you can't be gay in the military...or is it you can't act gay in the military?

It is an actual law -
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/654.html

I read what you cited....it speaks to homosexual conduct.....or engaging in homosexual acts.....or proclaiming yourself to be a homosexual. It does not clearly say that a homosexual cannot serve in the military, only that they cannot show any signs of homosexuality.....or state that they are homosexual. I guess that is what the repeal of DADT is supposed to remedy.