Don't Ask, Don't Tell is Over

CinnamonGirl wrote:

navycpo7 wrote:

CinnamonGirl wrote: I don't know if I ever mentioned this but I have a friend that was in the service and they were in the UK. I was talking to his wife about brokeback mountain. She had never heard of the movie. I was surprised and told her what it was about and she said that it made sense to her. According to her the service is homophobic and they would not have a movie like that to rent on base.

It takes time.

I was also surprised and how crazy things are on base as well. Lots of crimes and issues that I never hear about. I got the feeling they like to be their own entity and not talk to the public about what goes on.

CG, military installations have the same problems as in the civilian world. We have the same crimes etc. Most of these bases are nothing short of small cities within thier own. With military housing etc all contained, there is no difference other than this is federal property and we in the military are federal employees. Our crime rate though is alot less than that of the surrounding cities. That has been proven and I even posted the figures in another post on here. You have to remember we are still human, and no matter where you go, there are bad apples. There other part to this is that with the wars those serving and veterans are having to deal with alot of issues because of that. TBI, PTSD etc. I know about the PTSD first hand. I am also working with my son, also PTSD, his worse than mine. The other problem we now have is that some idiot higher up the command chain has taken some bases and opened them up to the public. The public can go on base to the various outlets such as burger king or ice cream shop or movie theater etc. This also allows for problems, as some bases are now having problems with various things. A big part related to the public on base. Ft Bliss being one of those. As for talking to the public, I know with the ships I was on, those of us in Navy had a simple saying, What happens on the ship stays on the ship.

Thank you navycpo7 for explaining that. Some of the stories my friend told me surprised me. And I think some of all this is the unknown stuff. I know this may be a really personal question that you may not want to answer. But I am curious about what people that were actually in the service think about working with homosexuals. I hear all the time that it is a problem in combat but is that true? I would love to hear it from someone that has experience in the matter.

First my experience in combat situations are different from those in the Army or Marines even Air Force. We in the Navy that serve aboard ship do things alittle different. Close quarters yes. I served 3 tours up by the oil platforms in the Gulf and over by Bosnia. Being aboard ship I was not shot at etc. Did I have to deal with things that were tough yes, did I see shipmates die, yes. Some of what I saw and dealt with I still do not talk about. But that said, I did know of a few that were gay, and serving. One was in Electrical Division, (my division). Under the policy he did not publicize it, he did his job, and that was that. We did not have problems with it, the Division did not have any issues because of it. My thinking was so long as the jobs got done, he did his job, and there was no problems we had a mission to accomplish, my job as E Div Maintenance officer was to get that job done to help accomplish the mission. That was the bottom line for me and the other Chief in the division.

I was on the USS GEORGE WASHINGTON (CVN73) when they were starting to intregrate women aboard ships. We started our deployment in 94 with 150(approx) women. We had to modify the berthing somewhat, but that was about it. I have actually had the privilage of working with some excellent female electricians. They did their job better than some guys. We (the crew) were somewhat worried about what would happen with the women onboard. Things for the most part did not change. What did change was minor, (going into the female berthing, just had to have a female escort(I made sure I had a female chief with me, (doing what we called bething inspections) and that was about it. Now it is a no brainer and life is as it was without problems.

Thank you so much. Love your perspective from someone that has been there.

navycpo7 wrote:

CinnamonGirl wrote:

navycpo7 wrote:

CinnamonGirl wrote: I don't know if I ever mentioned this but I have a friend that was in the service and they were in the UK. I was talking to his wife about brokeback mountain. She had never heard of the movie. I was surprised and told her what it was about and she said that it made sense to her. According to her the service is homophobic and they would not have a movie like that to rent on base.

It takes time.

I was also surprised and how crazy things are on base as well. Lots of crimes and issues that I never hear about. I got the feeling they like to be their own entity and not talk to the public about what goes on.

CG, military installations have the same problems as in the civilian world. We have the same crimes etc. Most of these bases are nothing short of small cities within thier own. With military housing etc all contained, there is no difference other than this is federal property and we in the military are federal employees. Our crime rate though is alot less than that of the surrounding cities. That has been proven and I even posted the figures in another post on here. You have to remember we are still human, and no matter where you go, there are bad apples. There other part to this is that with the wars those serving and veterans are having to deal with alot of issues because of that. TBI, PTSD etc. I know about the PTSD first hand. I am also working with my son, also PTSD, his worse than mine. The other problem we now have is that some idiot higher up the command chain has taken some bases and opened them up to the public. The public can go on base to the various outlets such as burger king or ice cream shop or movie theater etc. This also allows for problems, as some bases are now having problems with various things. A big part related to the public on base. Ft Bliss being one of those. As for talking to the public, I know with the ships I was on, those of us in Navy had a simple saying, What happens on the ship stays on the ship.

Thank you navycpo7 for explaining that. Some of the stories my friend told me surprised me. And I think some of all this is the unknown stuff. I know this may be a really personal question that you may not want to answer. But I am curious about what people that were actually in the service think about working with homosexuals. I hear all the time that it is a problem in combat but is that true? I would love to hear it from someone that has experience in the matter.

First my experience in combat situations are different from those in the Army or Marines even Air Force. We in the Navy that serve aboard ship do things alittle different. Close quarters yes. I served 3 tours up by the oil platforms in the Gulf and over by Bosnia. Being aboard ship I was not shot at etc. Did I have to deal with things that were tough yes, did I see shipmates die, yes. Some of what I saw and dealt with I still do not talk about. But that said, I did know of a few that were gay, and serving. One was in Electrical Division, (my division). Under the policy he did not publicize it, he did his job, and that was that. We did not have problems with it, the Division did not have any issues because of it. My thinking was so long as the jobs got done, he did his job, and there was no problems we had a mission to accomplish, my job as E Div Maintenance officer was to get that job done to help accomplish the mission. That was the bottom line for me and the other Chief in the division.

I was on the USS GEORGE WASHINGTON (CVN73) when they were starting to intregrate women aboard ships. We started our deployment in 94 with 150(approx) women. We had to modify the berthing somewhat, but that was about it. I have actually had the privilage of working with some excellent female electricians. They did their job better than some guys. We (the crew) were somewhat worried about what would happen with the women onboard. Things for the most part did not change. What did change was minor, (going into the female berthing, just had to have a female escort(I made sure I had a female chief with me, (doing what we called bething inspections) and that was about it. Now it is a no brainer and life is as it was without problems.

Thank you for your service, you strike me as a good man and some one who repesents the military in a good light.

I'm disappointed but not surprised by this decision. It had become a politically correct battle cry to overturn Don't Ask, Don't Tell. As a retired career Army officer with nearly 30 years of service and combat tours I think this was a big mistake and we will see why when the services try to put it in play.

Now that it's overturned, I hope the services at least go slowly into this thing so they can put policies in place to support an openly gay lifestyle in the military. There are many second and third order effects that have not been considered and numerous policies and procedures that must be modified BEFORE this thing can work successfully. The Army and Marines need time to educate their soldiers, marines and leaders too.

There are new questions now about "military dependents" and benefits. I guess as long as gays can't legally marry in most places it won't be an issue, but once that goes through (only a matter of time before the whole nation embraces this too) the military will have to take a new approach to providing the various benefits to newly defined "military dependents".

I know, the PC crowd could give a hoot about the impact on the military or readiness. They want it done yesterday it seems. My hope is that cooler heads will approach this thing carefully and take it slow or we may succeed in breaking one of the few things that seems to be getting it right in our society....the US military.

ckm8 wrote: It's disgusting that so many that sit here safe at home would deny simple human rights to so many in the military that are this very minute risking their lives. Those gay men and women have ten times the integrity of those who get on anonymous forums and spew their bigoted filth.

You have a human right to serve in the military? Would you extend that to the obese and idiots too? I think the military should be allowed to choose thier recruits and currently 75% of teens wouldn't make it in due to health and mental issues.
I support homosexuals being allowed to serve openly but I don't believe it is a human right.

My brother in law says he is investing in a compny that is developing camouflage KY jelly cause of this law. Maybe there are more positives than being said here.

1) It is not a "right" to service in the military. It is a priviledge.

2) I do not know for sure if I ever worked with any homosexual military members during my 20 years. I suspect I did, but it wasn't any of my business if they were gay or straight and as long as it didn't interfere with their job, I really didn't care. Any more than if someone was a single parent or had been married several times.

3) I do know that there were several of my immediate or higher supervisors (supervisors of supervisors or Flight Commanders/Chiefs) who were very biased against anyone they thought was gay, whether they were military or civilian. I however, did not see any vitriol or obvious bias sent to the perceived gay people by anyone...they did however, voice their opinions.

4) All of this being said, as long as the DoD and each of the services educates their members properly and doesn't cram this down the throats of its members, I believe all will go well. And, I also know, as Navy said: Our military members in uniform are bound by orders and laws...and whether these are agreed upon or not, if an individual chooses to serve, they must abide by these rules and regulations. If they do not want to abide by them, then they are free to get out.

5) I also think a lot of the jobs accepting this quickly will be desk-jobs (I'm most familiar with the AF, so that is what I'm going by). I predict the problems will be with the Security Forces, Aircraft Maintainers, PJ's, and other very "masculine" jobs.

Here is my perspective as also being a veteran. I am retired Army. I would like to say that I don't care, and that I wouldn't have a problem working with homosexual military members (and I am sure that I have). The reality is that military life IS different than civilian life. Before I was married, I sometimes had up to four other roommates. Now are there going to be designated male/female homosexual rooms? We also had open bay showers. I wouldn't want to shower with another male that found me sexually appealing, much as I wouldn't want to shower with females (yeah it sounds good, but the odds are against you unless you are Air Force). So the argument that in the fox hole in a fire fight it doesn't matter is true, but it goes way beyond that, and unless you have served in the military, I honesty don't think you will understand. I don't mind "working" with homosexuals, but living and sleeping in the same room is a bit much to ask (and during deployment conditions things tend to get pretty cozy). Again, just one soldier's opinion...

In 10 years, this is going to have the same impact as the integration of the services in 1948 did. Those who are that bothered by it, will have left the service or won't join; (just as those who were that bothered by racial-integration did in the late-40's/early-50's).

Petraeus Aide Marvin Hill: If Troops Can't Deal With DADT Repeal, They Should Leave The Service

WASHINGTON -- A senior aide to David Petraeus, commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, is out with a strong statement in support of repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT), saying that servicemembers who can't adjust to the change should think about leaving the military.

"If there are people who cannot deal with the change, then they're going to have to do what's best for their troops and best for the organization and best for the military service and exit the military service, so that we can move forward -- if that's the way that we have to go," said Command Sergeant Major Marvin Hill in an interview with Roland Martin on Washington Watch, set to air on Sunday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/1 ... 95189.html