Looks like...

This quote is the basis for why I believe there is no hope that they will get anything about what Wayne or others are trying to say to them.

Again, I was hoping this thread would be a good thing. About the only thing I can say about it is I hope all this is transparent enough.

They are pretty predictable over there.
Since I can't log in to the other site, I had my daughter print, scan and email me the first 20 pages of the membership list at that other website. ( I am just not willing to give them any free publicity any more.)

I haven't dove into this to far but this is what I did see in just a quick look. I asked her to sort them from the highest post count to the lowest.
After page 5, post count drops significantly.
Each page holds 35 registered users.
The first 5 pages represent 175 registered users. 75 of those have not posted, are banned or for whatever reason, have left the site and post elsewhere.
The next 5 pages show that at least 120 out of 175 have died, been banned or have moved on.
I checked a couple more pages at 11-15 and the number just keep going up.
So...in conclusion out of 350 of their most prolific posters....195 of them have stopped using the site for various reasons.
Wonder what would happen to the registered users list if they purged say...
1. Purge all those members who have never posted.
2. Purge all members that are banned.
3. Purge all members who have passed away.
4. Purge all member who have not posted in over a year.

What do you suppose the registered member count would be?
I suspect it is less than 500 members.

From what I can see from my chair....there are about 58 people posting and supporting the site consistently. Most of them are moderators are on the board or provide their tech assist.

In my mind.... that is not a successful website.

In answer to the quote above...
The thread could have been a good thing if those in charge had taken it as constructive criticism.
I go back to the beginning of the website. I watched as Wayne took that website to do amazing things for the community.
Wayne...you are a visionary.

This notion that we, as users of that site are guests and as such should not complain is BS. That site has always touted itself as the community voice. The place to go for community info in especially a time of crisis. They no longer serve this community.
Scanner info can be found at many different locations.....
Most notably and consistently at [url=http://www.disastersupportvolunteers.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]www.disastersupportvolunteers.com[/url]. They have provided that info (spelled correctly and coherently) for several years.

That other site is just a club for about 50 people who don't play well with others but have somehow found some like minded, insecure folks to commiserate with. They have found a place by which they can feel important and can hide who they really are to the rest of the world. They are bullies in my mind but cowardly ones.

To beachrobin....hon, being banned is a badge of honor. I am in incredibly good company. The criteria for being banned at that other site is independent thought and enough integrity to stand behind your beliefs with your words. To speak out when one sees unfairness.
Thank you for the ban and please don't send me any emails telling me how disappointed you are in me.

I am of the belief that if you don't like it over there you should leave. Most have and those that remain are to afraid to go really look to see if I am right.

Here's what I posted over there just now:

---

For the record, I am not a person with a chip on my shoulder. There are problems on this site and I think this is a discussion initiated to try and figure out solutions. I hope that's it anyway and why I'm jumping in.

I am on the same site as Rockdoc mentioned above and I'm on the facebook pages too. I'm not a troublemaker, have no issue whatsoever with pinecam except a difference of vision. Well, that and I see the place entirely over-moderated, but that is only my opinion, and doesn't affect me personally, but I do see it as problem here.

I've been a part of pc for a long time--since before it was this and I was a moderator in the pet corner and corral for 4 years or so. I quit in March when I realized that a few things I regarded as problems were not regarded as such by the BoD.

I couldn't understand how this site ran--what it was. A business with 'customers'? A non-profit? And so I couldn't understand the structure. I thought if I understood the structure, that would help me form a vision for restructure that would lead to viable solutions. I found out the BoD runs the show and PC is not a business really and rather a Private Site and as such BoD can do what it wants. When I was told that there were no problems, I understood that really, pinecam has no problems, I do.

I believe that if you have a problem in a relationship; be it with your spouse or employer or a forum, both sides need to have a desire to change and fix and grow. Without that same focus or vision, there is no forward movement. At the end of the day, this site is happy. Those who stand by it the way it is are happy. It is the remaining people that feel restless, agitated and discriminated against that are upset.

It is not Pinecam that has any problems, it is us who see a different vision.

I became part of a site that (to me) is new and forward thinking and will have (very soon) better ways of alerting us to fires, and has a totally unmoderated forum that you must be 18 yrs old to enter. It is fun and exciting and so far, working out great. I don't see it as either/or sort of site with this one, but rather a good meld with Pinecam. Kind of like Bailey and Conifer. Two communities side by side. There is no bashing of pinecam there, (so far) and I personally hope it stays that way. Check it out and enjoy! Just for signing up, you automatically are entered into a drawing to win grocery gift cards and Starbuck's gift cards. [url=**************[/url]

**Edited to add my name: Tanya Buck

And before you made your great post this is what I posted, for those of you without direct access:

Word about this thread reached another forum (see sig line) on which I’m active. Curiosity brought me here. I’ve spent the past hour carefully reading the entire thread and came away with the following conclusions. Problems exist in the Pinecam fiefdom. Hurt feelings, resentment, defensiveness, disappointment and miscommunication abound. Plenty of good suggestions for improvement were thrown out for consideration, yet the thread continues to be maligned by moderation concerns and issues. I’ve my own perceptions and voiced those in the past on this matter so I shall not go there again. Critical thinking would acknowledge there is a problem here that needs to be addressed, even if it is no more than to try and put yourself in opposing shoes to gain insight. This will require immense honesty and can be rather humbling, but the exercise will give you plenty to work with.

Defensiveness prevents people from listening. Simply consider your personal relationships and the moment a loved one begins with “You did..” the hackles go up and one is on the offensive. It’s happening here. I statements are less aggressive and their use would bear more fruit. There have been plenty of good suggestions or at least questions asked if any one had considered this or that. Generally I did not see them addressed. An honest answer would have been either, “No, we had not thought of that, or Yes, we have …..” Citing time limitations is an excuse. It’s a harsh statement given the amount of time Pinecam contributors put into this forum, but what I’m trying to say is the current approach is uninviting to potential contributors. Top managers know how to delegate and let go. They understand that it’s not their leadership as much as their empowering others that brings huge advances to fruition and makes them look good in the process.

What you do with Facebook is really irrelevant if you address internal issues. Do that and I think you move forward again.

So there has been a family squabble resulting in hurt and confused feelings. People like myself have taken sides in the squabble. Continuing to bicker is pointless. It’s time to make up, extend an olive branch and mean it. Then don’t tell me why you can’t do something. Instead tell me how you can do it even if that means getting someone else to bear the load. Just remember, while you sit here bickering and going nowhere there are other forums out there whose visionary approach primed for the future. They intend to grow at your expense. You recall, dinosaurs failed to evolve sufficiently so mammals took over their niches. I wish you success with the challenges you face.

Franz

Further posts show many still don't get it. There is a leadership problem that draws parallels to FB's privacy issues, a significant outrage exists. Someone wrote on this topic saying "The optimist in me hopes that the public uproar inspires Facebook’s management to spend less effort on spin and more on unraveling the Gordian Knot that is managing.." Seems like it is applicable to PC, too much spin and not enough on unraveling the problems." You may substitute PC for facebook and management for privacy.

It's very sad to me what it has become and how just a few people can determine its course. It's also very fascinating for me to see what it's like on the other side, looking in. It does have some positive things going for it but many more negative and when you think about the growing negative feelings about it and how those feelings are passed on to other people, I'm not sure what they will be able to do to overcome that.

It's like a favorite restaurant that slowly starts not caring about its customers. "You don't like it here? Eat somewhere else." Then people do eat somewhere else and the restaurant is left wondering where all its customers went.

I always envisioned the site should have a large role in the community but most of those in power over there can't see beyond the forum. At some point I'm going to have to make the painful decision that many of you have already made -- to not participate anymore. Perhaps, given my recent posts over there, the decision will be made for me.

I'm still amazed that, five years after I left, they still haven't even bothered to upgrade the forum software to the newer version used here. I'm surprised they haven't been hacked more often since that version is notoriously easy to hack. Just Google "how to hack phpBB2." And they worry about Facebook security.

Franz, it was your post that prompted mine. I'm glad you posted it here. Wayne, I think it must be hard for you to be part of and yet not, something that was your 'baby'. I know for me it would bother me even more than it does. I so fondly remember the 'old days' when this mountain was smaller and less populated and so was Pinecam. I remember how cool it was to have the New Improved Pinecam when it became more than a blog. And there it is. Now, the frustration of what it has become and the unwillingness to let ego go and to listen to the people...then again, like I said, there is a small faction that are very happy with the site as is and the real problems aren't with Pinecam at all, but rather with us who see what it could be.

To the creators of this site, I thank you for your vision, your hard work and your willingness to not only listen but to ask for feedback even it means negative comments. That is growth. That is how progess--positive progress is made. Thank you very much and sign me up for whatever needs done as long as it's not tech!

One thing I think we need to do is start getting the word out and promoting this site. Hand in hand with Pinecam would be good--some want a more conservative site and they can have that, it's in place a happy. Think they'd go along with that? Not competitors but more like partners? Like Coke and Diet Coke.......

PS Conservative above does not mean Republicans or Far Right. I mean it more like for people who don't like the Freakin' language some of us use and prefer the pansie ass way of saying the same thing.

Wayne, I agree. I do wonder how they have not been hacked. That software is ancient. And I don't believe it was the best version of PHPBB. From what I have read. But in my view. For me it is about the members. I have had so few issues with members and that is the focus for me.

LopingAlong wrote: Hand in hand with Pinecam would be good--some want a more conservative site and they can have that, it's in place a happy. Think they'd go along with that? Not competitors but more like partners? Like Coke and Diet Coke.......

My personal observation is it would be a mistake to try and partner with Pinecam. Set your own course. Be your own site and don't make changes based on what the other site is doing. People can decide for themselves where they want to spend their time. The cream always rises to the top.

Well said Wayne. I totally agree

What's that sound? Hell freezing over? LOL