Just so you all know

major bean wrote: That is nonsense. Whenever a child enters adolescence they need very little provocation to find issues with which to rebel against the world. Giving them a very difficult self image very early in life is extremely bad. You might as well go out and beat them every day of their young life.

Young minds do not consider and receive things as would an adult. You have forgotten what it is like to be a child. How pitiful.

Yes, children will find any reason against which to rebel. But to assume that diagnosing them with ADHD is giving them a difficult self-image is erroneous in my opinion. We have used it as an example of how our son can overcome even greater odds and still excel - he has to work harder than many of his classmates to reach meet or exceed the grade-level milestones and we reinforce that positivity every time he makes significant accomplishments. To ignore the ADHD would be detrimental in my eyes, because then he'd struggle, not understand why, get more angry and frustrated, then start lashing out, or hating school and peers who make fun of him for "being stupid". Kids understand in the context that you explain it to them, obviously you don't go into the biochemical, genetic, and environmental factors, just that everyone's different in their abilities and they just have to try harder at this versus that. I think that's what SG tried to say - that society puts pressures on kids unnecessarily. Again, it all goes back to the issue of fully informing oneself of what a diagnosis of ADHD entails, and how to make it a positive gain in their child's life rather than something that they have to "deal with".

major bean wrote: Please consider this:
I did not introduce personal information into this thread. That information was voluntarily given in an attempt at debate bullying, trying to make an opponent to back down by introducing personal info and making the issue a personal attack. This tactic of bullying was discussed in another thread by all the liberals involved here.
If you have any intellectual intergrity, you would recognize what was done by this introduction of personal information, and repent.
I have tried to keep to the subject and discuss the issue. The postured indignation about a personal attack has continued. Please refer to the thread "Our Discussion....."

No, ScienceChic introduced this as an attempt to trump my post saying that it was poor parenting.

Exactly how is it "debate bullying", or "trumping your post" (whatever that means) to pull from one's own experiences in order to enlighten you about your misconceptions? I am in no way trying to "make you back down" or making this a personal attack (I'm not calling you or other posters descriptions like "pitiful" or "unfit", or calling into question your choices of how to raise your kids), I'm merely attempting to expand your judgmental horizons (about others) that not all parents who give their children medication for ADHD, or any other mental disorder, are unfit and unloving. I have kept this discussion relevant to the issue - with my own personal experiences, rather than a ton of research references. The intellectual integrity comes from the fact that I'm not lying about any of the research that I've done pertaining to ADHD, nor any of the methods described that we've tried. You just can't seem to open your mind and integrate any information that opposes your preconceived notions. Yes, my child is on medication for ADHD, and no I am not unloving or unfit - there's no research article that will prove that, just my own opinion, and the opinion of others who have observed me with my children - opinions that you are conveniently ignoring.

major bean wrote: We are not dealing with a child with a medical issue, but, rather, a personality issue. You are not telling a child that they have a physical abnormality but that "he", "who he is", "what he is", "his very being" is not as everyone else. That his very being is not normal. This is extremely profound to a child. It is an insidious "cancer" that grows within the child until it eventually overcomes him and he becomes a problem to himself and to others.

Sure they are sweet children today. Even those who are abused are sweet children. The effects take time to twist the child into what they become in adulthood.

If nothing else, his school records will follow him until the day he dies. He will be denied certain jobs with the government. Whenever he fills out a form for a permit, job, or whatever, he must answer the mental health question with the answer that he has been diagnosed with mental problems. This is a giant albatross around his neck.

Yes, it is a medical issue that manifests as a personality/behavioral issue. See previous post as to how we've used this as a positive growth experience for our child. Just because you judge it negatively doesn't mean that anyone else does.

And exactly what jobs will he be denied? Government, public, or private? We're not talking a juvie criminal record here...

No, he does not have to disclose any mental health issue - that's private medical information. No one accesses school records when hiring someone after they've graduated, especially if they've gone on to college and graduated from there - they could care less about high school or lower performances.

Nmysys wrote: I have to say that this was IMO a very interesting debate. I apologize if my statement earlier was interpreted to be an indictment of SC. It definitely wasn't meant to be. Actually in most replies this was one of the most maturely handled debates in quite awhile.

Apology accepted!

See - we can have good, thorough debates without snarky comments and name-calling! :thumbsup:

major bean wrote: Schizophrenia also has physical causes, but should we say that it is a medical disease? Some forms of paranoia have physical causes. Autism has physical causes.

Do we not classify these as psychological and personality problems? If ADHD exists, it also falls into the same class as these.

All of the above are both psychological and medical diseases - there's significant overlap. There are several genetic diseases that manifest mental retardation as well, but we don't classify them only as mental disease, but genetic disease - anything with an observed physical abnormality, be it one misfolded protein channel with compromised functionality, or lack of production of a critical protein due to DNA mutation, that creates a phenotype outside of the bell curve of normal behaviors or physical characteristics, qualifies as a medical disease. ADHD, like many other diabilities, has both genetic and environmental causes - which makes it both medically applicable, and psychologically relevant.