Conifer - right wing hate capital of US?

Soulshiner wrote: The title of this thread is too much. Doesn't help the conversation and trivializes the actual act.

The automatic responses aren't helping either. The assumption that it was right wing nazis or that the democrats did it themselves by both sides show that there is little rational thought left on this board. I doubt there is anyone left who's mind isn't made up, so these wild posts by both sides are really just troll bait. Mean people saying mean things to try to get the other side to react and give them more ammunition to say more mean things.

It's sad to see so many bitter people firing shots at each other for no other reason than to be a jerk to someone and get away with it because they are on a faceless message board.

Sad.

agreed... the title invited more shit slinging that goes on here on a daily basis. I am really tired of all the hate and fighting... it's been going on for years now...

Wily Fox aka Angela wrote: this is the second attack on an Obama office, the first was a drive by shooting when people were inside. This is not who we are and no one should be defending or denying these hate crimes.

Well, at least the second alleged attack on an Obama office. The first one ended up being a stray round from a gang related shooting down the street, so I don't think it counts as an attack directed at Obama or a race related hate crime. And unless and until the person responsible for the act in Conifer is found, we won't know precisely what kind of a hate crime it is, though I would agree that whomever it is that is responsible for the act was motivated by hate regardless of who it is precisely that is the object of their hate.

So which would be worse in your mind Angela - an act that was motivated by a hatred of Obama or an act which attempted to ensure that the race divide remains in place so that it might continue to be used to hold onto the seat of power? Each of these would be disgraceful, there is no doubt about that, but which one is the more offensive of the two?

Either PS has a link (from a viable news site) that quotes Denver PD confirming that it was a stray bullet from an incident down the street or it's his usual BS....

BtW... googled 'Obama office Denver shot window and gang' and only thing I came up with is the same useless conjecture on extreme right wing blog sites that oh btw, also say things like 'they deserved it' and overall supporting this type of violence. I do find that interesting that they came up with the same misguided thinking that PS did.... makes you wonder eh?

Heisenberg wrote: I clear stated that soulshiner made one of the only intelligent comments... yours not included.

Wow, you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. Some of your comments are intelligent.

I think everyone here deplores any such act like this, including me.

The OP and title of this thread were just so over the top, though, that it invited the thread (not the act) not being taken very seriously.

Hate crime? How do we know yet? If it were done by some middle school or high school kids, are you ready to charge them with a hate crime and lock them away?

Sure, if it were done by adults or near adults I could see the criminal mischief charges filed as mentioned in the Denver Post article. For a hate crime, I think other criteria would have to be met and I'll leave that to the courts. If it were done by skin heads, I'd think they'd of at least gotten the swastikas right, but who knows.

Let's see if the police find out who did it before calling Conifer the "right wing hate capital of US" (not that I can think of any justification for that term) or calling it a hate crime. And as mentioned earlier, how many in this country have ever even heard of Conifer, CO (before or even after this unfortunate incident)?

Hate crime? No, I didn't think of it that way. I wasn't even really referring to the act itself with my posts.....it could be kids, it could be adults, it could be non political malicious mischief. What upset me were the reactions, and those reactions are what make the title of this thread so valid. So much anger, so much hatred of the"other side"....this is what our country has become, and our community reflects that.

Now the right will blame the left, and the left will blame the right.....but bottom line is we are all guilty. In this thread, however,I admit to being surprised by the attempts to blame the victims without any proof of that being the case. And my posts reflect the frustration of seeing people who may have done nothing wrong, were in fact victims of a crime, however minor, being accused of orchestrating the attack. That is just wrong....in fact our rightie friends have pointed out in the past how wrong that is.

Now if you could just take off the blinders long enough to see that the blame without any proof, as well as the "anger and hatred" of the "other side" was evidenced by one on your own side originally there might be some progress made. The raw hatred of Bush is not imagined. The raw hatred of the TEA Party is not imagined. That the swastikas were backwards and only on the windows tells those interested in knowing the entire truth something about the incident or at least it should. Do you honestly believe that a white supremest, while ignorant of a great deal, is ignorant of the correct style of their chosen symbol? Wouldn't one attempting to make a statement make their statement difficult to erase? How many times have you seen taggers limit themselves to windows during the course of your lifetime? This is the first instance I can ever recall in mine. I've seen windows and facade defaced, but never before only the windows. And while neither anomoly by itself might be noteworthy, their sum certainly is unless logic and reason have been cast aside.

How many times must this be endured before it ceases? Did the left learn nothing after their blind statements regarding the damage done to the Democratic HQ in Denver or in the wake of the Giffords tragedy? Are they content to be repeatedly embarrassed by their (over) reactions? Are they wholly unaware of the damage falsely crying wolf repeatedly is doing to their reputation?

As for being surprised by the reaction, one must wonder why. Derision of bigotry is exactly what I expect to see regardless of whether it is racial or ideological in nature.

PrintSmith wrote: How many times must this be endured before it ceases? Did the left learn nothing after their blind statements regarding the damage done to the Democratic HQ in Denver or in the wake of the Giffords tragedy? Are they content to be repeatedly embarrassed by their (over) reactions? Are they wholly unaware of the damage falsely crying wolf repeatedly is doing to their reputation?

Exactly what I was referring to....the right was so "up in arms" about accusations without proof......yet here they are, making accusations without proof.....you included. What does that say about the right? Do as I say, not as I do?

Your surprise should have been the tenor of the original posting archer, not the response to it. To expect that those accused on the flimsiest of evidence would not take offense, especially when such a broad brush was used, would be what is surprising.

Were the suppositions Dog made sustainable, why is it only now that it rears its ugly head? Why would it not have been done when Obama was ahead in the polls instead of now that he is trailing? Is there a reasonable explaination available for why only now, when Obama falls behind, that we all of a sudden have 2 incidences of his outlets being targeted? I have a reasonable explaination as to why false flag ops would be appearing now, what have you got in the way of reasonable explaination for such things happening only now that Obama is behind in the polls in this State?

On top of that, the defacing was limited to windows. On top of that the swastikas were incorrect. Overall I would say that there is more to point to it being a false flag op than there is to say that it was the act of a racial bigot when it is looked at in a dispassionate manner instead of an emotional one.

On the surface it has more in common with what Susan Smith attempted, or the gay women who defaced their own property trying to paint their neighbors as bigots, than it does with a hate filled racist lashing out and giving voice to their bigotry. It smells of trying to get people to run from any association with the opposition as a means to reverse the very real possibility that Obama could fail to carry this State like he did 4 short years ago by a large margin.

The Obama campaign is in trouble, it is hemorrhaging as the election draws near. Over the last 3 days it has lost 17 electoral votes according to the RCP Electoral Map with no Toss Ups. It is not an understatement to say that desperation permeates the campaign at the moment. Obama needs something to happen if he is to reverse what is happening. This is the type of something that might just enable that reversal to occur. The left has been trying for the last 4 years to paint opposition to Obama's policies as being rooted in racism rather than a fundamental opposition to the policies themselves. The left needs this election to be a referendum on race because it can't win the election if it is a referendum on the success of the administration over the last 4 years.

I say let them post whatever they want. It is working for them.
For me....the op symbolizes just how ugly the entire campaign has become.
Apples aren't falling to far from trees.
Your only as good as your leader and so on.
It is sad that a person could come here and just level such ugly accusations.
Reasonable people on both sides understand that it was outrageous.
I do realize that the majority of the left is very much the same as me. We want the same things for our country, we just have two very different paths that we believe will achieve what we want.
This handful of folks here do not represent their entire party. I try to remember that every day but this handful of folks makes it hard. I speak to people every day who articulate their positions with dignity and respect and though I may not agree, I respect them.
The lack of respect here has been earned and no doubt......on both sides.
When you are so extreme in your ideology and vitroil,people will react and they will often do so in unexpected ways.
I have heard people on the right here be hammered for their responses to such an extreme OP yet no outrage directed at one of your own for opening Pandora's box at all.
The extreme is so entrenched that all they can see from their defensive position is what the other person is doing. You are attempting to lead from behind and it just isn't working.
Greenlady.....I am sorry that you were attacked in another thread on this issue. You did not deserve that and I am sorry you had to see that side of such a fine community.