18 Children Among 26 Dead in Conn Elementary School Shooting

FredHayek wrote: Suicide shooters? Just not a lot will stop them. But is there any way to prevent young males from getting that way?

Yes... have them spend a weekend with Lady Jazzer... the Human Emasculizer!!!.

Just as there are no atheists in a foxhole in combat, I'm thinking most, if not all of those teachers in Newtown hunkered down in their classrooms trying to protect their students would have loved to have a weapon in hand as they listened to the madman slowly and methodically execute innocent and unarmed children and adults. They interviewed a teachers' aide who claimed the shooting continued off and on for 20 minutes (who knows how long exactly but that was her estimate). She said she sat their scared out of her mind for 20 minutes listening to the "pop, pop"...."pop, pop". Then some silence probably as he reloaded. Then a continuation.

An entire school full of defenseless innocents. And the adults who were charged to protect those children equally defenseless. Completely at the will of the shooter.

I'm certain ANY of those brave teachers or administrators would have returned fire on the madman and wouldn't have thought twice. For those who have really been under fire know you go to the survival mode when faced with death and you are ready to fight back.

I will always wonder how many young innocents would be alive today if there had been just one hand gun available to a teacher in the school in Newtown.

lionshead2010 wrote: Just as there are no atheists in a foxhole in combat, I'm thinking most, if not all of those teachers in Newtown hunkered down in their classrooms trying to protect their students would have loved to have a weapon in hand as they listened to the madman slowly and methodically execute innocent and unarmed children and adults. They interviewed a teachers' aide who claimed the shooting continued off and on for 20 minutes (who knows how long exactly but that was her estimate). She said she sat their scared out of her mind for 20 minutes listening to the "pop, pop"...."pop, pop". Then some silence probably as he reloaded. Then a continuation.

An entire school full of defenseless innocents. And the adults who were charged to protect those children equally defenseless. Completely at the will of the shooter.

I'm certain ANY of those brave teachers or administrators would have returned fire on the madman and wouldn't have thought twice. For those who have really been under fire know you go to the survival mode when faced with death and you are ready to fight back.

I will always wonder how many young innocents would be alive today if there had been just one hand gun available to a teacher in the school in Newtown.

Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

ZHawke wrote: [Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

I say this seriously. Take a poll of educators who currently have a ccw. Would they carry? Take a poll of parents who have kids in school. Would they want them to?

ZHawke wrote:

lionshead2010 wrote: Just as there are no atheists in a foxhole in combat, I'm thinking most, if not all of those teachers in Newtown hunkered down in their classrooms trying to protect their students would have loved to have a weapon in hand as they listened to the madman slowly and methodically execute innocent and unarmed children and adults. They interviewed a teachers' aide who claimed the shooting continued off and on for 20 minutes (who knows how long exactly but that was her estimate). She said she sat their scared out of her mind for 20 minutes listening to the "pop, pop"...."pop, pop". Then some silence probably as he reloaded. Then a continuation.

An entire school full of defenseless innocents. And the adults who were charged to protect those children equally defenseless. Completely at the will of the shooter.

I'm certain ANY of those brave teachers or administrators would have returned fire on the madman and wouldn't have thought twice. For those who have really been under fire know you go to the survival mode when faced with death and you are ready to fight back.

I will always wonder how many young innocents would be alive today if there had been just one hand gun available to a teacher in the school in Newtown.

Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

That's a fair question. Let's start by asking the teachers who were under fire in Newtown first. We can ask the teachers at Columbine and Platte Canyon too. Any school or public facility where a madman had his way.

It's easy to pontificate about our convictions when we are sitting warm and safe in our armchair. I'm telling you (you may know this) that when you are under fire you will revisit your "rock solid" convictions and you will pick the route to survival. It's nature.

lionshead2010 wrote:

ZHawke wrote:

lionshead2010 wrote: Just as there are no atheists in a foxhole in combat, I'm thinking most, if not all of those teachers in Newtown hunkered down in their classrooms trying to protect their students would have loved to have a weapon in hand as they listened to the madman slowly and methodically execute innocent and unarmed children and adults. They interviewed a teachers' aide who claimed the shooting continued off and on for 20 minutes (who knows how long exactly but that was her estimate). She said she sat their scared out of her mind for 20 minutes listening to the "pop, pop"...."pop, pop". Then some silence probably as he reloaded. Then a continuation.

An entire school full of defenseless innocents. And the adults who were charged to protect those children equally defenseless. Completely at the will of the shooter.

I'm certain ANY of those brave teachers or administrators would have returned fire on the madman and wouldn't have thought twice. For those who have really been under fire know you go to the survival mode when faced with death and you are ready to fight back.

I will always wonder how many young innocents would be alive today if there had been just one hand gun available to a teacher in the school in Newtown.

Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

That's a fair question. Let's start by asking the teachers who were under fire in Newtown first. We can ask the teachers at Columbine and Platte Canyon too. Any school or public facility where a madman had his way.

It's easy to pontificate about our convictions when we are sitting warm and safe in our armchair. I'm telling you (you may know this) that when you are under fire you will revisit your "rock solid" convictions and you will pick the route to survival. It's nature.

I won't disagree with you except, perhaps, when you limit the poll to start with teachers only in those schools where a "madman" had his way. You're right, in my opinion, regarding pontification about our own convictions. That's why I'm suggesting trying to get a "pulse" from the entire educational community. I've been "accused" many times of bringing too much "emotion" to the table in discussing what we might be able to do to help prevent future tragedies like these from occurring in the future. If that is true, and I'm "guilty as charged" in this regard, then I'd have to say we also need to take the "emotion" out of a poll like this as much as we possibly can in order to get a more accurate read on how the educational community feels about it.

ZHawke wrote:

lionshead2010 wrote:

ZHawke wrote:

lionshead2010 wrote: Just as there are no atheists in a foxhole in combat, I'm thinking most, if not all of those teachers in Newtown hunkered down in their classrooms trying to protect their students would have loved to have a weapon in hand as they listened to the madman slowly and methodically execute innocent and unarmed children and adults. They interviewed a teachers' aide who claimed the shooting continued off and on for 20 minutes (who knows how long exactly but that was her estimate). She said she sat their scared out of her mind for 20 minutes listening to the "pop, pop"...."pop, pop". Then some silence probably as he reloaded. Then a continuation.

An entire school full of defenseless innocents. And the adults who were charged to protect those children equally defenseless. Completely at the will of the shooter.

I'm certain ANY of those brave teachers or administrators would have returned fire on the madman and wouldn't have thought twice. For those who have really been under fire know you go to the survival mode when faced with death and you are ready to fight back.

I will always wonder how many young innocents would be alive today if there had been just one hand gun available to a teacher in the school in Newtown.

Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

That's a fair question. Let's start by asking the teachers who were under fire in Newtown first. We can ask the teachers at Columbine and Platte Canyon too. Any school or public facility where a madman had his way.

It's easy to pontificate about our convictions when we are sitting warm and safe in our armchair. I'm telling you (you may know this) that when you are under fire you will revisit your "rock solid" convictions and you will pick the route to survival. It's nature.

I won't disagree with you except, perhaps, when you limit the poll to start with teachers only in those schools where a "madman" had his way. You're right, in my opinion, regarding pontification about our own convictions. That's why I'm suggesting trying to get a "pulse" from the entire educational community. I've been "accused" many times of bringing too much "emotion" to the table in discussing what we might be able to do to help prevent future tragedies like these from occurring in the future. If that is true, and I'm "guilty as charged" in this regard, then I'd have to say we also need to take the "emotion" out of a poll like this as much as we possibly can in order to get a more accurate read on how the educational community feels about it.

I think it would be relevant to ask YOU this question. If there were a string of murders in the mountain towns where a killer would break down the doors of his victims and start killing whoever he saw, would you or would you not want to have a loaded firearm readily available to protect yourself and your family? Even if you were not an expert, would you still want to have that last resort weapon handy?

And if you would want that weapon handy, why is it any different for a teacher wanting to have something to help protect his/her kids as a last resort?

Grady wrote:

Mr. Cuomo also said he would also review ways to take already-existing assault weapons out of circulation by requiring new permits, or potentially requiring assault weapon owners to sell guns back to the state.

WJS.com
Forced to sell personal property to the state? No that’s not confiscation. That sounds like something only a repressive regime would have the power to do, not something you would see in a country protected by our constitution.

"If it saves only one child's life" screw the constitution.

To clarify: 1. The source of the quote above is from the Wall Street Journal as linked.
2. Andrew Cuomo is the Governor of New York.

Heisenberg wrote: I think it would be relevant to ask YOU this question. If there were a string of murders in the mountain towns where a killer would break down the doors of his victims and start killing whoever he saw, would you or would you not want to have a loaded firearm readily available to protect yourself and your family? Even if you were not an expert, would you still want to have that last resort weapon handy?

And if you would want that weapon handy, why is it any different for a teacher wanting to have something to help protect his/her kids as a last resort?

Playing the "what if" game does nothing to promote the dialogue. The real issue here isn't about me, nor is it about you. The issue is to try to get a pulse from the educational community nationally that might help promote a reasonable dialogue on the issue of arming teachers.

Please reference this article on the issue of "denial": http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/ This article says more about the issue than any of us thus far in this thread, in my opinion. And, I would heartily support most, if not all, of the suggestions/recommendations made therein. The problem, as I see it, is we all "talk the talk", but when it comes to "walking the walk", we aren't quite as ready and willing to do so.

Blazer Bob wrote:

ZHawke wrote: [Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

I say this seriously. Take a poll of educators who currently have a ccw. Would they carry? Take a poll of parents who have kids in school. Would they want them to?

I agree. I'd just expand it to include the entire educational community. Limiting it to one or the other accomplishes nothing, in my opinion. I'd also posit a separate poll from parents would be warranted. I just wouldn't lump it in with the educational community - two different dynamics entirely, again, in my opinion.