18 Children Among 26 Dead in Conn Elementary School Shooting

ZHawke wrote:

Blazer Bob wrote:

ZHawke wrote: [Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

I say this seriously. Take a poll of educators who currently have a ccw. Would they carry? Take a poll of parents who have kids in school. Would they want them to?

I agree. I'd just expand it to include the entire educational community. Limiting it to one or the other accomplishes nothing, in my opinion. I'd also posit a separate poll from parents would be warranted. I just wouldn't lump it in with the educational community - two different dynamics entirely, again, in my opinion.

I believe the discussion goes beyond schools. There are mass killings in malls, theaters and other public places too. Same sort of MO on the part of the madmen. Where are these monsters coming from? What, in their chemistry or upbringing, makes them do these horrific things?

Anyone who can look at the angelic and innocent face of a child and pull the trigger has some VERY SERIOUS wiring problems. Anyone who can point a weapon at an unarmed, noncombatant and pull the trigger has VERY SERIOUS issues. What the hell is going on?

lionshead2010 wrote:

ZHawke wrote:

Blazer Bob wrote:

ZHawke wrote: [Why don't you ask them? In fact, let's take a national poll of teachers to see how many would like to be able to carry in their classrooms. I'm saying this seriously. This is not being sarcastic. I'd really like to see a poll taken to try to help determine the educational community's take on all of this. If, and until, that happens, I don't believe any of us are qualified to provide any "answers" to this very divisive issue.

I say this seriously. Take a poll of educators who currently have a ccw. Would they carry? Take a poll of parents who have kids in school. Would they want them to?

I agree. I'd just expand it to include the entire educational community. Limiting it to one or the other accomplishes nothing, in my opinion. I'd also posit a separate poll from parents would be warranted. I just wouldn't lump it in with the educational community - two different dynamics entirely, again, in my opinion.

I believe the discussion goes beyond schools. There are mass killings in malls, theaters and other public places too. Same sort of MO on the part of the madmen. Where are these monsters coming from? What, in their chemistry or upbringing, makes them do these horrific things?

Anyone who can look at the angelic and innocent face of a child and pull the trigger has some VERY SERIOUS wiring problems. Anyone who can point a weapon at an unarmed, noncombatant and pull the trigger has VERY SERIOUS issues. What the hell is going on?

Completely and totally agree. Don't have the answers, though. Individually, I don't believe any of us do. Perhaps together, we can come up with something. Part of the problem, as I see it, is thus far society hasn't been willing to adequately "foot the bill" for things like appropriate mental health care. Speaking from first hand experience, I believe it's part of an "insurance" issue. If we continue to allow insurance companies to dictate the type of mental health care (in-patient vs. partial care as one example) and length of stay (many policies allow only 30 days in-patient - after that, they're back in society, ready or not). In my personal experience, my spouse went through the whole "involuntary 72 hour hold" thingy. Then she was admitted for in-patient treatment, and remained there for 30 days. Even though my insurance policy stated there was no pre-determined limit on how long she could be hospitalized, when 30 days was over, she was put into the partial-care program. Not too long after and unbeknownst to me, she walked into a pawn shop, asked to see a handgun, loaded it with two cartridges she'd brought along, and, while the clerk gathered required paperwork for a purchase of that firearm, she put the gun to her temple and pulled the trigger. I could ask how could anyone do that to themselves, too. But that denies the bigger issue of the societal apathy/malaise you mention in your post that is prevalent in virtually all of us until something tragic happens. Is there a problem? You bet. We just need to decide what we, as a society, are willing to do about it, and how much financial support we are willing to throw behind our efforts. Because everything comes with a price.

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss.

We have to first define the problem and THEN solve it. That's Management 101. Unfortunately in the world we now live in, everyone wants an answer and solution NOW. What that leads us to are knee jerk, half baked (if not good intentioned) "solutions" that simply cause more problems. If you treat symptoms instead of the base problem you generally waste energy and resources.

I think you are on to it. The nation needs to have an honest conversation about what the hell is going on. Only then can we solve it. Hell, right now the nation can't even decide how to avert financial disaster. I think this is another symptom of the same problem. We are broken and like a wounded animal, instead of greeting any well intentioned offers of help....we lash out.

The press and our so-called political "leaders" have only served to open the wounds more. The country is in big trouble.

lionshead2010 wrote: I'm very sorry to hear about your loss.

We have to first define the problem and THEN solve it. That's Management 101. Unfortunately in the world we now live in, everyone wants an answer and solution NOW. What that leads us to are knee jerk, half baked (if not good intentioned) "solutions" that simply cause more problems. If you treat symptoms instead of the base problem you generally waste energy and resources.

I think you are on to it. The nation needs to have an honest conversation about what the hell is going on. Only then can we solve it. Hell, right now the nation can't even decide how to avert financial disaster. I think this is another symptom of the same problem. We are broken and like a wounded animal, instead of greeting any well intentioned offers of help....we lash out.

The press and our so-called political "leaders" have only served to open the wounds more. The country is in big trouble.

Thanks for your condolences. I'm still struggling with it.

And, I totally agree with the rest of your assessment. Can we try to make it happen? And, if so, how? I've been trying for a very long time with extremely limited success.

Boston.com has an interesting piece of 10 big myths about mass shootings which pretty much destroys all the solutions currently being proposed and also showing that mass murders are declining despite increased media coverage in the US.

FredHayek wrote: Boston.com has an interesting piece of 10 big myths about mass shootings which pretty much destroys all the solutions currently being proposed and also showing that mass murders are declining despite increased media coverage in the US.

Please consider adding a link to the actual article. Went to the page Boston.com and all I saw was an article on the response to the NRA press conference (unless that's the one you are referring to).

Thanks.

Statistics show......

FredHayek wrote: Boston.com has an interesting piece of 10 big myths about mass shootings which pretty much destroys all the solutions currently being proposed and also showing that mass murders are declining despite increased media coverage in the US.

I am sure that is great comfort to those in Conneticut.
Got a link? I also found nothing on Boston.com

Boston.com community blogs. Myths.

FredHayek wrote: Boston.com community blogs. Myths.

For those who choose not to Google the link, here it is: http://boston.com/community/blogs/crime_punishment/2012/12/top_10_myths_about_mass_shooti.html

Oh, the usual irrelevant blogger posts that are written by partisan hacks instead of journalists. Got it. (That's why Fred rarely posts links to the garbage he quotes... He knows it will be exposed for the irrelevant garbage that it is...and quickly...) Kind of like the mislieading "Obama Administration Abandons Jailed Marine"

Uh-huh...