Cleveland Clinic to Cut $330 Million

archer wrote: Yeah, I got a kick out of a Republican house member this morning claiming that this vote to defund Obamacare, while holding the funding for the government hostage, had bipartisan support....right, two democrats voted for it, one republican voted against it, and net of one vote. The Senate has even more Republicans opposed to it...

I don't have a problem with the opposition to Obamacare, that is their right and really what our government needs.....I have a problem with their tactics, and that is what several Republican Senate members oppose also......

Twice as many people strongly oppose the law as strongly support it. Why doesn't the Senate simply fund the rest of government and then they can sit down and make the law better so that it gains enough support among the people and their elected representatives of the people to be funded? What's wrong with the Democrats that they can't simply admit that they rushed into enacting a bad law that needs critical revisions before the people are subjected to it?

The democrats already crafted their law....it passed both houses of congress and was signed by the the President. Of course there is opposition, what law doesn't have it? But this country shouldn't be run by polls and public opinion, it is run by lawmakers elected by us. If they don't represent us well we vote them out of office.....well we voted Obama back into office and a democratic Senate...knowing full well Obamacare was part of the package. The ball is in the Republicans court.....if they think they can do better, they have had ample opportunity to create one, but no, they decided instead to throw a temper tantrum at the 11th hour.

FredHayek wrote: More unintended consequences of passing a bill that no one got to read and that Obama won't let it be modified. He is allowed to change when parts are implemented but no one else is allowed to vote on modifying it.

More intended consequences of propping up big companies and making everyone an employee.

At some point I think people are going to have to realize that cronyism is jacking the size of the companies to the point where our competitive checks and balances fall apart. We need to stop the Republicans and Democrats from jacking up the size of firms. Those in govt and those firms are the only ones that win.

PrintSmith wrote:

archer wrote: Yeah, I got a kick out of a Republican house member this morning claiming that this vote to defund Obamacare, while holding the funding for the government hostage, had bipartisan support....right, two democrats voted for it, one republican voted against it, and net of one vote. The Senate has even more Republicans opposed to it...

I don't have a problem with the opposition to Obamacare, that is their right and really what our government needs.....I have a problem with their tactics, and that is what several Republican Senate members oppose also......

Twice as many people strongly oppose the law as strongly support it. Why doesn't the Senate simply fund the rest of government and then they can sit down and make the law better so that it gains enough support among the people and their elected representatives of the people to be funded? What's wrong with the Democrats that they can't simply admit that they rushed into enacting a bad law that needs critical revisions before the people are subjected to it?

Because it is for the greater good. Who cares how badly written it is. Who cares that twice as many oppose it. It needs to be shoved down our throats because we don't know what is good for us. Now maybe the people will boot out a few congressmen.

I haven't seen a demographic breakdown of those who oppose the law....it would be interesting to know how many people without insurance because the were either unable to afford it or did not qualify for it are opposed to it. Or how many with kids between 22 and 26 want it defunded, or those who have had their policy cancelled.......this discussion sounds a lot like people trying to justify preventing those who have been shut out of the healthcare/health insurance opportunities in this country from inconveniencing those who already have those opportunities.

archer wrote: #ricktheclairvoyant

#it'scommonsense

And it's my opinion which I will gladly admit to being wrong, if I am. But I have the feeling that if I'm right and we do end up getting worse care, that the blame by proponents like you will be focused on Republicans, Bush, climate change, guns... I'm sure you'll all come up with something other than Obama and Democrats.

Rick wrote:

archer wrote: #ricktheclairvoyant

#it'scommonsense

And it's my opinion which I will gladly admit to being wrong, if I am. But I have the feeling that if I'm right and we do end up getting worse care, that the blame by proponents like you will be focused on Republicans, Bush, climate change, guns... I'm sure you'll all come up with something other than Obama and Democrats.

There you go again........

I have no doubt that there are elements of the bill that won't work well, and will be, should be, changed. I too will be happy to recognize what works AND what doesn't. And we should work to fine tune and fix those parts of the law that don't meet our citizens needs. But blocking the entire law because the GOP either hates anything Obama and the democrats do, or they are unwilling to make the effort to actually work on changes is just wrong. I listened to Ben Stein this morning, you know, that flaming liberal, even he is blaming the Republicans for acting like children with their schoolyard bullying of this country by threatening to shut the government down if they don't get their way.

archer wrote: The democrats already crafted their law....it passed both houses of congress and was signed by the the President. Of course there is opposition, what law doesn't have it? But this country shouldn't be run by polls and public opinion, it is run by lawmakers elected by us. If they don't represent us well we vote them out of office.....well we voted Obama back into office and a democratic Senate...knowing full well Obamacare was part of the package. The ball is in the Republicans court.....if they think they can do better, they have had ample opportunity to create one, but no, they decided instead to throw a temper tantrum at the 11th hour.

And the citizens of the States elected a Republican House specifically to oppose the ACA and the railroading tactics being employed by Obama and the Democrats in Congress. The Democrats ignored the voice of the people, who have always opposed the ACA in larger numbers than they have supported it, with Speaker Pelosi barely managing to get the necessary number of votes to pass it and send it to the Senate (220-215, 218 needed to pass), this despite the Democrats having a substantial majority (76 seats) at that time.

The Democrats in the General Court of the Commonwealth of Massacusetts revised how a Senate vacancy would be handled (replacement appointed by the Governor until special election was held) specifically to preserve the 3/5 majority in the Senate of the United States enjoyed by the Democrats. Not to mention the Cornhusker Kickback and the 2nd Louisianna Purchase that Reid engaged in at the 11th hour in the Senate before the end of the session because it was by no means assured that the Democrats would still have their 3/5 majority after the special election in Massachusetts.

To pretend that the will of the people was served by such actions is ludicrous on its face. Yes, by hook and by crook the Democrats narrowly got the bill passed and onto the president's desk, but it required the House passing the Senate version and then "fixing" the problems that House Democrats had with it in conference to get to that point.

Damned straight the Republicans are pulling out all the stops to put roadblocks up to prevent this example of partisan power politics which the people opposed from being fully implemented. That's specifically the job the citizens of the States hired them to do in 2010 and returned them to do in 2012. 53% of the people in the Union oppose the legislation and want it stopped. 53% of the House of Representatives voted to defund the legislation to prevent it from taking effect. See the correlation there?

archer wrote: I have no doubt that there are elements of the bill that won't work well, and will be, should be, changed. I too will be happy to recognize what works AND what doesn't. And we should work to fine tune and fix those parts of the law that don't meet our citizens needs. But blocking the entire law because the GOP either hates anything Obama and the democrats do, or they are unwilling to make the effort to actually work on changes is just wrong. I listened to Ben Stein this morning, you know, that flaming liberal, even he is blaming the Republicans for acting like children with their schoolyard bullying of this country by threatening to shut the government down if they don't get their way.

Another liberty being taken with the truth. It is the Democrats who are willing to shut the government down unless they get their way. The Republicans have agreed to fund all of government except the ACA while the portions of the bill that won't work well and that should be changed are actually changed. The Democrats are having none of it. They will shut down the government unless the ACA, the good, the bad and the ugly, is funded. That's the truth of the matter.