Bergdahl - The Hypocrisy and Hate Must End

05 Jun 2014 09:10 #41 by LadyJazzer

FredHayek wrote: No source or proof .....


Of course not. But, as usual, you don't need any sources or proof to throw out your unsubstantiated b.s.

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05 Jun 2014 10:18 #42 by FredHayek
The Taliban tape of the prisoner transfer is being analyzed now and it appears to show Bergdahl as reluctant to leave his Taliban handler. Stockholm Syndrome? I think whoever gets his first interview will have a ratings monster. Americans want to know what happened to him and why he walked away.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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05 Jun 2014 10:37 #43 by LadyJazzer
Oh, we'll just wait for you to tell us, Fred. You don't need any facts, but no doubt you can tell us what happened.

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05 Jun 2014 10:59 #44 by FredHayek

LadyJazzer wrote: Oh, we'll just wait for you to tell us, Fred. You don't need any facts, but no doubt you can tell us what happened.


Oh please, you are constantly cutting and pasting opinion pieces only you would regard as factual.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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05 Jun 2014 11:03 #45 by Photo-fish
Reluctant to leave? Where was he gonna go? The chopper hadn't even arrived yet. I didn't see him pause or start kicking and screaming as they led him away.

You must have been watching the Directors Cut.

´¯`•.. ><((((º>`•´¯`•...¸><((((º> ´¯`•.. ><((((º>`´¯`•...¸><((((º>´¯`•.. ><((((º>`•´¯`•...¸><((((º> ´¯`•.. ><((((º>`•.´¯`•...¸><((((º>

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05 Jun 2014 12:44 #46 by ScienceChic
A recap, for those who don't want to take the time to read this long, thoughtful follow up post to his previous "Negotiating with Terrorists." He starts with reminiscing at how disgusted he felt, at age 18, toward President Jimmy Carter for doing nothing to bring home our hostages.

Then joining the military and learning the reality of the situation, from logistics to political consequences, and changing his mind. He grew. Learned.

To here we are now, with another situation, similar yet dissimilar; possibly a learning experience. There are always multiple sides to a story, people taking small bits and parts and twisting the message to their own agenda. [quoteemJim Wright:17enqyl1]And the next time you attempt to use my words to chastise a Marine, I’d be honored to hold his hat while he explains to you the folly of your ways."[/quoteem:17enqyl1]
The big question: was he worth trading lives for? Is it really going to cause more harm, will terrorists kidnap more people now? Perhaps, though I doubt it - people have always been targeted, traded, freedom bought quietly, secret rescue missions conducted, none of this is new.

The bigger picture is that that question, "Was he worth trading lives for" is one that should've been asked before this war was even started. Before we traded 13,000 American lives and hundreds of thousands of Afghani and Iragi lives for one terrorist attack that cost us 3,000 lives. When does the trading of death stop? (Notice I didn't even bring up the monetary cost, because money can be replaced, people cannot - that is the true tragedy.)

What I take away from this: I want more thoughtful, intelligent, questioning, patient, civil discourse and discussion - it IS possible. Calling names, labeling people you don't agree with, not listening and considering their points for a time before responding thoughtfully - it's crap and we're better than that. It starts here with us, where we have control over it.

I want to find out, and will not pass judgement until it's discovered/published:
a.) What Bergdahl's intentions were when he left his post. Is it possible he was on a secret mission? Was he merely bored/disenchanted or had he turned traitor? Would he have returned had he not been captured? What would he have done had he gotten to where he was trying to go?
b.) Were the people who died after he left really sent to find him and did they die as a direct result on those missions?
c.) Did he aid the enemy in sharing information? Was it willingly, or was he tortured for it?
d.) Did he bring back intelligence for us?
e.) Were those Gitmo prisoners going to be released anyway so this way we got something for it?

Before anyone pipes up and says "this story says this" and "that story says that", yes they all do - I can find something out there that speculates on each point above and claims to have evidence or opinions to back it up. The reality is, none of us know the whole truth yet, and the whole truth comes from multiple people and takes time. What we should be condemning is anyone using this as a political football, calling for impeachment, ramping up political rhetoric, and dragging in other situations to further their own gain (first thing I was taught about marriage - don't bring up an old argument during a current one. One argument at a time, resolve it and move on/drop it, or get the hell out if you're going to hold a grudge).

Negotiating With Terrorists: The Counterpoint
Jim Wright, Stonekettle Station
Wednesday, June 4, 2014

Two days ago I wrote Negotiating With Terrorists .

On the surface, that essay is about the return of an American prisoner of war, Bowe Bergdahl.

But underneath, the article is really about the same socio-political themes I commonly address, hate, fear, political insanity, reflexive unreason, hysterical punditry, division for profit, and empty patriotism. As with everything nowadays, Americans are deeply divided on this issue because it seems we must lately line up on either side of any issue no matter how great or how trivial and scream reflexive hatred at each other.

But then I got a letter from a Marine.

He is a United States Marine Corps Captain, recently returned from his second tour in Afghanistan. He disagreed with my article. But, and here’s the thing so pay attention, the Captain’s letter was polite, respectful as in one peer to another, firm in its opinion, intelligent, thoughtful, reasoned, did not engage in personal attacks, and was written in a clear and concise manner. And he signed his name to the bottom of it.

The Captain asked me if I would retract or edit Negotiating With Terrorists.

I told him no. But not because I didn’t consider it. Because you see this Marine brought me forcefully back to where I began here today, and that is this: We are the sum of our experiences. I told the Captain that I could not retract my article, instead what I would do is give him (and by extension those he had led and those who had served alongside Bowe Bergdahl) a platform.

And that’s exactly what I’m going to do. Right now. You read my words, now read his. I want you to read this warrior’s words, every one of them.

We are the sum of our experiences, this is his:

The letter is posted in full at Stonekettle Station. http://www.stonekettle.com/2014/06/nego ... point.html

From 2012, interesting to read from a past perspective before the release finally happened:
America's Last Prisoner of War
Three years ago, a 23-year-old soldier walked off his base in Afghanistan and into the hands of the Taliban. Now he’s a crucial pawn in negotiations to end the war. Will the Pentagon leave a man behind?
By Michael Hastings
June 7, 2012 8:00 AM ET

In June 2012, fearless Rolling Stone contributing edtior Michael Hastings wrote the definitive first account of Bowe Bergdahl — the young American soldier who was captured by the Taliban and became the last American prisoner of war. Hastings, the journalist who brought down the career of General Stanley McChrystal in these pages, died in a car accident one year later. Bergdahl was freed this weekend. Hastings' incredible story is available in full here:

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... z33n5RjZWt
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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05 Jun 2014 12:54 #47 by FredHayek
Bring the boys home! So we can ignore them once they get back. (Per the VA scandal.)

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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05 Jun 2014 12:58 #48 by LadyJazzer

FredHayek wrote: Bring the boys home! So we can ignore them once they get back. (Per the VA scandal.)


Yes, you should talk to your TeaPublican buddies in the Congress to vote FOR the $24 Billion necessary to take care of them properly. It's so easy for them to pay the usual vacuous lip-service to "the vets" and then vote against the money to take care of them. I just love teabagger hypocrisy--I could sit and watch it for minutes.

Imagine my surprise.

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05 Jun 2014 13:11 - 01 Oct 2014 21:59 #49 by ScienceChic
:smackshead: Great discourse there with calling "teabagger".
[quoteemJim Wright]But, and here’s the thing so pay attention, the Captain’s letter was polite, respectful as in one peer to another, firm in its opinion, intelligent, thoughtful, reasoned, did not engage in personal attacks, and was written in a clear and concise manner.[/quoteem]

FredHayek wrote: Bring the boys home! So we can ignore them once they get back. (Per the VA scandal.)

The clusterf*** that is the VA is an issue, certainly, and it's one that Jim Wright wrote about the partisan hypocrisy and hate in another of his blog posts that I shared. We can continue the feigned outrage, political rhetoric, and useless solutions (ie firing Shinseki), or we can buckle down and do the hard work of fixing it inside and out - hold all of our representatives accountable for reviewing and revamping it so it works. Reducing the bureaucracy and waste, stop starting unnecessary wars that create thousands of new vets to need the system, and pass programs that truly help and support the vets once they return. Each side screaming the other hasn't done sh** doesn't fix the problem, since both sides are at fault for ignoring those who have served.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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05 Jun 2014 13:29 #50 by homeagain
The underbelly of the United States of America is NOW exposed for all to see,the hypocrisy,the
blatant turning of a blind eye,the deceit,the "using" of other nations....THIS is NOT new, it's
just there no longer a large enough rock to hide the hideous truth....READ CONFESSIONS OF
AN ECONOMIC HITMAN...by John Perkins (it is NONfiction)...and it's been going on since World
War 11....except NOW democracy is dead and we did it to ourselves....John Perkins warned of
this pending debacle and it is NOW a clear and present danger to our nation....we reap what we
have sown....(in spades)

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