Wuhan Virus Update

29 Aug 2020 19:50 #211 by ramage
Replied by ramage on topic Wuhan Virus Update
From townhall.com 8/29/20


According to The New York Times, potentially 90 percent of those who have tested positive for COVID-19 have such insignificant amounts of the virus present in their bodies that such individuals do not need to isolate nor are they candidates for contact tracing. Leading public health experts are now concerned that overtesting is responsible for misdiagnosing a huge number of people with harmless amounts of the virus in their systems.

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29 Aug 2020 20:03 #212 by ramage
Replied by ramage on topic Wuhan Virus Update
How about this goodie:

The CDC silently updated their numbers this week to show that only 6% of all coronavirus deaths were related to the coronavirus alone. The rest of the deaths attributed to the China coronavirus are attributed to individuals who had other serious issues going on. Also, most of the deaths are related to very old Americans.

thegatewaypundit.com 8/29/20

For those who refuse to open conservative sites, I urge you to go to cdc.gov.

Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

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30 Aug 2020 04:24 #213 by HEARTLESS
Replied by HEARTLESS on topic Wuhan Virus Update
A short video on what ramage mentioned on the CDC.

The silent majority will be silent no more.

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30 Aug 2020 18:11 #214 by FredHayek
Replied by FredHayek on topic Wuhan Virus Update
I saw that 6% number and I was shocked. I think I will wait to get a little more information before I believe it.
I do know people who were high risk and got Covid but suffered almost no effects. Maybe the strains have become more mild? Or maybe the really nasty strains have killed themselves off? You are seeing high infection rates in the South right now, but not the death rates like New York.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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31 Aug 2020 16:55 #215 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Wuhan Virus Update
About that "only 6% of COVID19 deaths are caused by COVID so only 9,000 people have died of it and the numbers are inflated" - I need to say something to correct and clarify this.

1. No, the numbers are not inflated. Had those people not come down with SARS-CoV-2, they would likely still be alive (most, not all). Just like if you have HIV and come down with pneumonia and die, you die of pneumonia, exacerbated by HIV compromising your immune system. If you have cancer and concurrently contract the flu which kills you, then you die of the flu, not cancer, but cancer is co-listed because your chemo ruined your immune system. Make sense?

2. It's great that so few of healthy people are at high risk of dying. Unfortunately, they can still pass this along to those who aren't (often unknowingly b/c they're asymptomatic), and considering in what poor health a significant portion of our population is (either their own fault thanks to poor diet and exercise, or through no fault of their own due to disease), they're still at high risk. This also applies to the notion that we should just go for it and get to herd immunity - you're condemning a whole lot of people to death or severe lifelong disabilities caused by infection of this virus; secondary consequences that we still don't fully understand or are as yet aware. Alternatively, if we can continue to practice safe distancing, wear masks, use proper hygiene, get in better shape and wait for a vaccine. We can then achieve herd immunity much more safely and without so damn many people dying.

3. No, the CDC didn't "quietly" hide this data or try to keep it from you - it's posted right there on their website (no better transparency than that) and they've been posting weekly data since it started. If you're going to bitch about the media being shitty trying to "brainwash" you, and then only rely on the media to tell you what's going on rather than going to the source to read it for yourself and keep up with what the doctors and scientists are saying, then you're the problem, not the media.

4. The CDC has said all along that having underlying health issues such as diabetes, obesity, chronic health conditions, or being elderly puts everyone in a higher risk category. This is the data showing that by the numbers, it's nothing new. Had SARS-CoV-2 not spread around the world, most of those people would still be alive living with the co-morbidities that they'd had. What's more, it continues to be a risk for our population that continues to have these co-morbidities.

Over 180,000 Americans have died of COVID this year. We are on track to lose 300,000 - those numbers, and the total number of deaths - "excess deaths" - are above and beyond the normal number of deaths, and put COVID into 3rd place for cause of death behind heart disease and cancer. The only thing different this year from past years is the emergence and spread of this new virus. You cannot fake the number of dead Americans and how many more deaths we've had this year, no matter what the cause. COVID-19 is the only variable that has changed, whether directly or as culprit. Full stop.

To look at the data in better context, review the Excess Deaths page: www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

This is a screen shot of the interactive graph of deaths from all causes Jan 2017-Sept 2020, go to the page and hover over it for more:

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
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31 Aug 2020 18:21 #216 by Pony Soldier
Replied by Pony Soldier on topic Wuhan Virus Update
So you somehow know that these people with an average of 2.6 comorbidities would have lived if not for Covid? Do you have something to back that up because that reporting standard is that it is a COVID death if that person dies and has COVID at that time. What that data shows is that only 6% died from only COVID. That is a remarkably small number for the devastation we have undergone to our economy. Your point about excess deaths could also be attributable in part to people not seeking healthcare because they were afraid or suicide due to depression brought on by losing a job. It just isn’t very “sciency” to say they all died because they had COVID.

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31 Aug 2020 19:17 #217 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Wuhan Virus Update
As I said, "most, not all" would still be alive and I'm basing that on the normal number of deaths per year vs the excess deaths we have now. There are certainly reports of people who delayed seeking treatment for fear of exposure and who died of causes that weren't listed as COVID but probably were (especially in the beginning before we had tests for it and it was racing rampant through the population). The suicides, the cancer deaths and heart attacks due to delayed treatment, and lack of facilities or healthcare workers - all of that is indirectly attributable, but would not be listed as COVID on the death certificate. All of those deaths would have added to the detriment to our economy, because you don't lose that many workers and not have it affect the GDP. Had we not shut down, we would have lost many more and it would've been worse - history has taught us that.

Did you know that 61,000 people died of the flu in 2017-18? Funny how no one ever questioned those numbers, or the recommendations of the CDC back then (except some who kept applauding anti-vaxxers). Politicians can attempt to politicize science all they want, but there's no denying the facts. Trump himself went from calling it a hoax to holding daily press briefings about it, from refusing to wear a mask to wearing one. To holding round tables with pharmaceutical companies and hounding them to produce treatments faster than is physically and safely possible.

Notice I haven't blamed him for all the problems that we've had during this pandemic. His administration's handling of it has been atrocious, but he inherited a system that was unprepared (albeit they had created a guidebook, which he tossed), a government that the population distrusted and barely pays attention to, a party that has a history of dismissing science and facts, and a short-sighted population that refuses to spend the time and money becoming informed and prepared for problems that aren't concrete and immediate (cough *global warming* cough *pandemics* cough) and is soft, opulent, unhealthy, and oppositionally defiant at being told what to do even if it is in their best interests. All of that together created a perfect storm which resulted in the United States dealing with this crisis the worst of any nation on the planet.

While other countries have gotten their disease outbreaks under control and are re-opening safely and getting slowly back to normal, we're still in limbo with over ten million out of work, businesses closing every day, and a government that is enacting measures that barely temporarily help individuals without addressing the underlying issues that remain - insufficient infrastructure, lack of preparedness, inadequate public education, of and a broken healthcare system.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
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31 Aug 2020 19:28 #218 by ramage
Replied by ramage on topic Wuhan Virus Update
Your point.

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01 Sep 2020 05:06 #219 by Pony Soldier
Replied by Pony Soldier on topic Wuhan Virus Update
I’d like to address the flu comparison specifically as it is pertinent. The way in which flu is coded as a cause of death is completely different than the way in which Covid is coded. If a person dies with the flu but due to a co-morbidity such as heart disease it is coded as death from heart disease, not the flu. That, specifically, is the difference I’m trying to point out. When I see numbers that indicate 94% of the coded Covid deaths might have been from other causes, I doubt the validity of the count.

Also, these deaths that were mentioned that are indirect results of shutdowns more so than the virus. It will likely never be known if we would have had better or worse results by just staying open. I wish I could believe that the shutdown recommendations from scientists were not politically motivated, but I will always harbor that suspicion.

You do have a point about average deaths vs the Covid timeline. It will be interesting to see if we now get a dip in that same average as Covid merely sped up the inevitable demise of some.

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02 Sep 2020 07:56 #220 by ramage
Replied by ramage on topic Wuhan Virus Update
Another unintended consequence of the Wuhan Virus"

from foxnews.com 9/2/20

"Frontier Airlines is facing criticism from a top police officer organization and Republican Rep. Doug Collins after they were accused of prohibiting a federal air marshal from boarding a flight in Atlanta due to his face covering, which featured an American flag."

The air marshal is boarding the plane to protect Frontier's customers and by extension Frontier's bottom line.
Did I mention that Frontier is based in Denver?

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