$50 Lesson

Just when you thought you couldn't see a dumber question. :faint:

And for the record, not that anyone asked, I think it is foolhardy to try to defend any particular scripture passage or to use it to make some salient point as for nearly every passage that says one thing, there is another passage that says the opposite. The passage Kate used (in it's entirety) clearly states that in order to get into Heaven, one must give up their worldly possessions and follow Christ. It's pretty simple. And the words came from Jesus himself (really, guys, they are directly attributed to him in the passage, don't try to say he didn't say it). Yet in other sections of the same scripture, he says there is a new covenant and that all of the old commandments are null and void in favor of simply following the golden rule, "love thy neighbor as thyself." Throughout his life and recorded conversations, Jesus is fairly clear that the only way to salvation and entering Heaven is to follow him.

Presumably, in today's world where he is no longer physically present to follow, simply following his example and living as he did would be an acceptable alternative. As someone who has rejected organized religion in favor of trying to make my presence on this mortal coil not suck, I have chosen to try and follow the examples of Jesus (who may very well possibly have just been an extraordinary man and not the literal Son of God). I try to help my fellow humans out. I try to not hold hatred and disdain in my heart towards others. I try to be charitable. I try to be understanding and supportive of those our society holds in contempt. I know I am not always successful in these endeavors, but that is part of the journey, right?

And just one last thought to ponder.... Who is to say that the Bible and Jesus were right and they're the only way? Jehovah's Witnesses believe only 144K people EVER will be allowed into Heaven. They're Christians. Are they right? Ask two Jews about Heaven and the Afterlife and you'll get three different answers. Are they right? Muslims actually record the story of Jesus and much of his works in the Koran, but believe Mohammad was the Messiah and Savior, not Jesus. Are they right? Mormons have the Book of John Smith that believes the missing book from the Bible came from aliens. Are they right? Did i get that right about the Mormons? Or was that Latter Day Saints? Buddhists believe the way to enlightenment is to repeat your journey through Earth as many times as is necessary to learn the lessons to enlightenment and oneness with the universe. Are they right? Am i making my point?

"The Bible is a book. It's a good book, but it's not the ONLY book."
(bonus points to anyone that can identify where that passage comes from)

In this theoretical scenario, I beat the homeless man, took $50 from him and said "it is what the right does, just ask any idiot on the left."

Why is it a dumb question, Heartless?

Assuming it weren't a joke and Viking really had those tasks that needed to be done and there was a homeless man that hung out at the grocery store, wouldn't offering the homeless man the opportunity to earn the money have been the right thing to do? Sure, offering the little girl the opportunity to earn the money and then suggesting she give it away may have proved an ideological point, but it did nothing for the actual homeless person's situation. Giving him a job and the opportunity to support himself is the Conservative and Christian way, right (that whole give a man a fish vs teach him to fish thing)?

http://www.bible.cc/matthew/19-21.htm Listed are more than a dozen different versions. Which is correct? Any, if you understand the intent. It is not meant as an absolute, but an example for the one rich man. And the second portion of follow me is not included, so no Kate didn't list it in its entirety.

By the way, there are only a couple properties in Kings Valley that have a lawn or hedges, so lets introduce pigs flying into this ridiculous scenario.

mittra303 wrote: And for the record, not that anyone asked, I think it is foolhardy to try to defend any particular scripture passage or to use it to make some salient point as for nearly every passage that says one thing, there is another passage that says the opposite. The passage Kate used (in it's entirety) clearly states that in order to get into Heaven, one must give up their worldly possessions and follow Christ. It's pretty simple. And the words came from Jesus himself (really, guys, they are directly attributed to him in the passage, don't try to say he didn't say it). Yet in other sections of the same scripture, he says there is a new covenant and that all of the old commandments are null and void in favor of simply following the golden rule, "love thy neighbor as thyself." Throughout his life and recorded conversations, Jesus is fairly clear that the only way to salvation and entering Heaven is to follow him.

Presumably, in today's world where he is no longer physically present to follow, simply following his example and living as he did would be an acceptable alternative. As someone who has rejected organized religion in favor of trying to make my presence on this mortal coil not suck, I have chosen to try and follow the examples of Jesus (who may very well possibly have just been an extraordinary man and not the literal Son of God). I try to help my fellow humans out. I try to not hold hatred and disdain in my heart towards others. I try to be charitable. I try to be understanding and supportive of those our society holds in contempt. I know I am not always successful in these endeavors, but that is part of the journey, right?

And just one last thought to ponder.... Who is to say that the Bible and Jesus were right and they're the only way? Jehovah's Witnesses believe only 144K people EVER will be allowed into Heaven. They're Christians. Are they right? Ask two Jews about Heaven and the Afterlife and you'll get three different answers. Are they right? Muslims actually record the story of Jesus and much of his works in the Koran, but believe Mohammad was the Messiah and Savior, not Jesus. Are they right? Mormons have the Book of John Smith that believes the missing book from the Bible came from aliens. Are they right? Did i get that right about the Mormons? Or was that Latter Day Saints? Buddhists believe the way to enlightenment is to repeat your journey through Earth as many times as is necessary to learn the lessons to enlightenment and oneness with the universe. Are they right? Am i making my point?

Great post.

mittra303 wrote: "The Bible is a book. It's a good book, but it's not the ONLY book."
(bonus points to anyone that can identify where that passage comes from)

The movie "Inherit the Wind," about a teacher prosecuted for teaching evolution in the classroom.

Actually, Heartless, it is the last part of Verse 21 that all say (in every variation you listed) that says "and come follow me." As Kate quoted verses 16-23 she included ALL of verse 21 that says "and come follow me" so, yes, she did it all in its entirety. As to the lawns and hedges in Kings Valley, are you certain that Viking doesn't own one of the homes that has lawns and hedges? For the sake of argument, let's say Viking didn't live in Kings Valley at all, but Highland's Ranch and his home has a lawn and hedges. You're not answering the question, wouldn't it have been better to offer the homeless person the opportunity to earn the money than make an ideological point with a little girl?

Thanks, Kate. I try to be a voice of reason. Sometimes I'm better at it than others.

Three bonus points to Kate for knowing where my favorite quote regarding the Biblical Scriptures came from. :thumbsup:

18 pages and counting, all to try and justify people's desire to stop their government from helping the poor, the needy, the sick, and the elderly....and using the Bible to do it......I am in awe.

Here's just an interesting note that shows I'm not totally off my rocker, Heartless.....

I was looking closer at the page you directed us to and under all of the various translations are what I presume are Biblical Scholars' comments and interpretations of the passge. Under "Barnes' Notes on the Bible" there's this comment:

Barnes wrote: Follow me - To follow Jesus then meant to be a personal attendant on his ministry; to go about with him from place to place, as well as to imitate and obey him. Now it means:

1. to obey his commandments.

2. to imitate his example, and to live like him.

Interesting. and here's my comment:

mittra303 wrote: Presumably, in today's world where he is no longer physically present to follow, simply following his example and living as he did would be an acceptable alternative.

Sound familiar?