These are the criminals that caused 4 people to die

plaidvillain wrote:
[snip]

I sometimes get the feeling many conservatives here have no interest in trying to understand the Islamic peoples' perspective. I question whether some prefer a peaceful coexistence. Some seem already convinced war is inevitable, and even anxious to get to it. I hope I'm wrong.

It looks like President Obama's chickens have come home to roost.

Nobody that matters wrote: Understanding their perspective is one thing. Hammering out a compromise is another thing altogether. For us to coexist, not only do we have to understand their perspective, but they have to understand ours. I don't see that effort taking place at all. We have basic rights, one of which is free speech. They don't have that freedom when it comes to the subject of their prophet. In order to coexist, they must understand that placing restrictions on our rights is just as offensive to us as the movie is to them.

Both have to adopt a live and let live attitude before peace could ever be a possibility. I see that happening from the majority of muslims, but we are at war with the extremists that insist we have to die.

I do understand that they were ticked off by the film. I get that it hit them right where it counts. I want them to understand that the vast majority of us don't share the views that upset them, and that the vast majority of us also don't believe that killing innocent people is a proper remedy for an insult on YouTube.

Excellent post! Makes sense to me.

So, here's the latest word on the Neanderthal blogs for the day:

"Right-Wing Blogs Claim Murdered Ambassador Was Gay"

As if that had any bearing on his assassination by a mob of thugs... Keep it classy, scum....

Democracy4Sale wrote: So, here's the latest word on the Neanderthal blogs for the day:

"Right-Wing Blogs Claim Murdered Ambassador Was Gay"

As if that had any bearing on his assassination by a mob of thugs... Keep it classy, scum....

As if it's a big deal to 99.9999% of conservatives... but as long as it gives you an outrage.

I am going to say again, you don't say "oh arab nations are different they should be exempt from free speech" because of these issues.

You might oughta rephrase that, CG. The only country where the 1st amendment has any authority is our own. They don't need us to "exempt" them.

LOL wrote:

Nobody that matters wrote: Understanding their perspective is one thing. Hammering out a compromise is another thing altogether. For us to coexist, not only do we have to understand their perspective, but they have to understand ours. I don't see that effort taking place at all. We have basic rights, one of which is free speech. They don't have that freedom when it comes to the subject of their prophet. In order to coexist, they must understand that placing restrictions on our rights is just as offensive to us as the movie is to them.

Both have to adopt a live and let live attitude before peace could ever be a possibility. I see that happening from the majority of muslims, but we are at war with the extremists that insist we have to die.

I do understand that they were ticked off by the film. I get that it hit them right where it counts. I want them to understand that the vast majority of us don't share the views that upset them, and that the vast majority of us also don't believe that killing innocent people is a proper remedy for an insult on YouTube.

Excellent post! Makes sense to me.

I agree...this is an excellent post. We are not that far apart in how we view this situation...so let me ask you this, does our right to free speech still apply when it's asserted upon another culture who does not have free speech? Again, I reference the fact that this thing was shown on Egyptian tv. Now, Pine's rebutted that it was only a 2 minute snip...that is not what I had heard, I had heard they showed the entire 14 minute trailer, although I haven't found any good info to confirm either way. Still...can we stretch our rights to impose them upon others? Certainly, we can't go touring Europe with a gun in our jacket and cite our 2nd amendment and CCW permit, right? So why does our right to free speech trump their cultures' structure or rules?

I'm glad you believe it is the minority, the extremists, who are the problem, and not the majority of the Muslim people. Do you think the original poster shares that opinion? The original post seemed to make a generalization of many people based upon the actions of the few. (Hey, Critical...wake the hell up!)

so let me ask you this, does our right to free speech still apply when it's asserted upon another culture who does not have free speech? Again, I reference the fact that this thing was shown on Egyptian tv. Now, Pine's rebutted that it was only a 2 minute snip...that is not what I had heard, I had heard they showed the entire 14 minute trailer, although I haven't found any good info to confirm either way. Still...can we stretch our rights to impose them upon others?

Well, technically, "we" didn't assert it on another culture, at least as far as Egyptian tv was concerned. An Egyptian tv shock jock of sorts pulled the trailer off youtube and showed it - quite deliberately, knowing what the reaction would be.

There's a good piece on Foreign Policy today called Free Speech in the Age of YouTube . Lot of food for thought there and I highly recommend it.

plaidvillain wrote:

LOL wrote:

Nobody that matters wrote: Understanding their perspective is one thing. Hammering out a compromise is another thing altogether. For us to coexist, not only do we have to understand their perspective, but they have to understand ours. I don't see that effort taking place at all. We have basic rights, one of which is free speech. They don't have that freedom when it comes to the subject of their prophet. In order to coexist, they must understand that placing restrictions on our rights is just as offensive to us as the movie is to them.

Both have to adopt a live and let live attitude before peace could ever be a possibility. I see that happening from the majority of muslims, but we are at war with the extremists that insist we have to die.

I do understand that they were ticked off by the film. I get that it hit them right where it counts. I want them to understand that the vast majority of us don't share the views that upset them, and that the vast majority of us also don't believe that killing innocent people is a proper remedy for an insult on YouTube.

Excellent post! Makes sense to me.

I agree...this is an excellent post. We are not that far apart in how we view this situation...so let me ask you this, does our right to free speech still apply when it's asserted upon another culture who does not have free speech? Again, I reference the fact that this thing was shown on Egyptian tv. Now, Pine's rebutted that it was only a 2 minute snip...that is not what I had heard, I had heard they showed the entire 14 minute trailer, although I haven't found any good info to confirm either way. Still...can we stretch our rights to impose them upon others? Certainly, we can't go touring Europe with a gun in our jacket and cite our 2nd amendment and CCW permit, right? So why does our right to free speech trump their cultures' structure or rules?

I'm glad you believe it is the minority, the extremists, who are the problem, and not the majority of the Muslim people. Do you think the original poster shares that opinion? The original post seemed to make a generalization of many people based upon the actions of the few. (Hey, Critical...wake the hell up!)

Wow... I guess we forced Egyptian TV to play the video? And I guess we forced those people to watch the video? And I've never suggested that the reaction to this video is the general reaction of all Muslims. You must be projecting again. The flip side of this is it doesn't take millions of angry people to cause major death and destruction. A thousand radical and angry Muslims can overtake an embassy. Heck a small group of about 100 destroyed the embassy in Libya and killed 4 people and if I remember correctly 19 people took down 2 buildings and killed almost 3000 people.

My concerns and problems with Muslim is relegated to the ones causing the problems. That's clear to me... evidently not too clear to you.

appleannie wrote:

so let me ask you this, does our right to free speech still apply when it's asserted upon another culture who does not have free speech? Again, I reference the fact that this thing was shown on Egyptian tv. Now, Pine's rebutted that it was only a 2 minute snip...that is not what I had heard, I had heard they showed the entire 14 minute trailer, although I haven't found any good info to confirm either way. Still...can we stretch our rights to impose them upon others?

Well, technically, "we" didn't assert it on another culture, at least as far as Egyptian tv was concerned. An Egyptian tv shock jock of sorts pulled the trailer off youtube and showed it - quite deliberately, knowing what the reaction would be.

There's a good piece on Foreign Policy today called Free Speech in the Age of YouTube . Lot of food for thought there and I highly recommend it.

Here's some food for thought. Civilized people in this modern world should not be killing anyone over a video. Period.

plaidvillain wrote:

LOL wrote:

Nobody that matters wrote: Understanding their perspective is one thing. Hammering out a compromise is another thing altogether. For us to coexist, not only do we have to understand their perspective, but they have to understand ours. I don't see that effort taking place at all. We have basic rights, one of which is free speech. They don't have that freedom when it comes to the subject of their prophet. In order to coexist, they must understand that placing restrictions on our rights is just as offensive to us as the movie is to them.

Both have to adopt a live and let live attitude before peace could ever be a possibility. I see that happening from the majority of muslims, but we are at war with the extremists that insist we have to die.

I do understand that they were ticked off by the film. I get that it hit them right where it counts. I want them to understand that the vast majority of us don't share the views that upset them, and that the vast majority of us also don't believe that killing innocent people is a proper remedy for an insult on YouTube.

Excellent post! Makes sense to me.

I agree...this is an excellent post. We are not that far apart in how we view this situation...so let me ask you this, does our right to free speech still apply when it's asserted upon another culture who does not have free speech? Again, I reference the fact that this thing was shown on Egyptian tv. Now, Pine's rebutted that it was only a 2 minute snip...that is not what I had heard, I had heard they showed the entire 14 minute trailer, although I haven't found any good info to confirm either way. Still...can we stretch our rights to impose them upon others? Certainly, we can't go touring Europe with a gun in our jacket and cite our 2nd amendment and CCW permit, right? So why does our right to free speech trump their cultures' structure or rules?

I'm glad you believe it is the minority, the extremists, who are the problem, and not the majority of the Muslim people. Do you think the original poster shares that opinion? The original post seemed to make a generalization of many people based upon the actions of the few. (Hey, Critical...wake the hell up!)

I read about the 2 minute clip (about 7.5 million hits so far) from a Wikipedia article this morning. But Wiki is a work in progress, and the article has changed and no longer mentions the 2 minutes (don't see any mention of the 14 minute clip either yet; about 4.5 million hits).

My main point was practically nobody had seen the whole movie, and Egyptian TV just showed a clip, not the whole movie. Your post that I was responding to didn't make it clear it was just a clip, and not the whole movie.