A new Board? Any interest?

BearMtnHIB wrote: SC- I really hope this does not turn into a moderated site. I rarely use that other site anymore because this site has remained open. And as you have pointed out- there's only 2 forums here that even get controversial topics to read. These posters who object do not have to read them, they are as free to ignore them as we are free to post in them.

Personally I think the very second you begin to make decisions about what posters write on here- you will open up a can of worms that never ends. Where you draw the lines- as you have noted- becomes subjective and sooner or later this site becomes the same thing as PC. What clearly sets 285bound apart is the policy of NO moderation.

If you make it the policy that we can't change a screename to an insult- that everyone must be civil- then you and the moderators will spend all your time as police. While it's quite true that we can not self-moderate everyone- it's also true that the vast majority of the posters can self moderate.

Every now and then our emotions get the best of us- and we turn to an insult or two- and in my mind there's nothing wrong with allowing this- in fact a real open discussion can not exist without the freedom to post what we want. Freedom of expression necessarily includes the possibility that people will abuse it. And now and again we can expect it. But the next day when cooler heads prevail- without that freedom to express intact- forums like this become worthless.

As you have pointed out- this courthouse is the most popular forum on this site- even with all the vitriol. Turn this into a campfire and watch it disintegrate.

My experience is that just because people object to this or that- does not justify any changes being needed. Sometimes people come up with the stupidest ideas. You can't make the world a perfect place- but you CAN easily destroy a good idea by trying to please everyone.

There's alot more to 285bound as SC has pointed out- I personaly use other parts of the site quite often- like the videos of local political meetings. My schedule will not allow me to attend all those meetings, but thanks to this site- I get to attend anyway- when my time allows.

This site could grow into so much more than it is right now- I think the local news for this area is an underserved area- I think that papers like the Canyon Courier are slowly dying- and sites like this one could one day take it's place. But people must be free to express their opinions- no matter how much others object- if we lose this then I think we lost it all.

I agree TOTALLY with this post,the BOLDED specifically. I have just now left Pinecam for this exact reason. Two threads about
NRA/gun control/Gifford's new organization were being debated. SOME posters responses were heated and perhaps NOT civil,but
it was The Study. For the most part, it was informative,but hotly debated. MODS came in, DELETED HUGE portions of the thread and
thread lost it's cohesiveness and train of thought. What was left was a "nice" comfortable exchange of posts. HAPPENED TWICE and
I left ( I believe they probably put me on "probation" because I called them on it).....it is a bottomless pit IF you elect to moderate
because you will ALWAYS have someone hitting the "complain" button. JMO

You can moderate a forum without deleting anything except personal information. It takes some work. It is not about telling people how to talk it is solely based on organization. Egos from management is what kills a forum. PC is not the only example of that. Many forums have this issue.

Raees wrote: Don't you understand? It's a conspiracy keeping her from posting. haha

So much for the washed up lawyers' kin. (sorry, had to post in the manner the poster posted and set the example for the rest of us). What's next? Are we going to revert to washed up mechanics, washed up computer programmers, washed up business owners to try and score points?

I was speaking about a washed up journalist. I have no idea what you are speaking to. I am not kin to a lawyer much less a washed up one.

SC the posts were in the courthouse. I will find the night in question and p.m. I figured if I hit the report button that I would end up with whomever was stopping them and it would never get to you.

As for businesses and individuals I really didn't ask if they were speaking about the courthouse in particular. I am just shocked that so many look at the site and say "no thanks". Sorry I can't be of more help there. I don't recommend the site any more so it isn't something where I could add more feedback.

Perusing the site it appears to me that not many use the site in any of the other forums except the courthouse. From a business perspective that says either it isn't known or those that know it, don't want to use it.

I post this after "leaving" out of respect for the creators of this great place and because they responded to this thread.

If I said this place was vile, I apologize for not being clear. Some people's posts are vile.

To all those that implied I should grow a pair, perhaps you missed something. I have stepped up to the plate many times to push topics to their end over and over. I don't give up easily. But eventually it just becomes over the top and not worth it. This does not make someone weak, it means they know their limit. If the limit is always near the bottom of the threshold, that would be weak. I really don't think I have given that impression with my posts, unwilling to engage. Many have said it in different ways on here and I bet that others can relate like me....that someone does not want to hate the world because they go back and forth with LJ....that they are sick of being abused verbally...I have had plenty of fights with my wife over little stuff after reading some of the vile NON back and forth that has resulted from LJesque posting.

Just like when people worry about a bad seed...others have brought up that LJ is not the only one, and I see where you are coming from, I do see it on both of YOUR FAKE "sides" and I see pretty clearly that just like the real world, just like groups of children, that when one starts acting up in an extreme way, that the standard for behavior changes. I believe that many of these folks got dragged down to this level by the queen, since she was so low, say a -10 rating, it made someone like Raees or Otis who could have only been a -2, turn into a -7. Don't take any rating but LJs too seriously, it is just an example, as I said, none of the others stand out as personalities as much. I read most posts based on their content and the other content by the same poster in the same thread. It seems a lot of the instant crap fight that is often started or propped up by LJ comes from stereotyping based on previous threads. I think these threads would make more sense if everyone was not tried over and over for the same previous crime simply because they chose to speak up to the queen...and I admit that all of us behave like her to some extent at different time and on some days she has to relinquish her throne.

Anyone who thought I have the time, patience or effort to run a board was just off. I did not have the idea and give up because a few people posted negatively about the idea.

I tried to moderate LJ by responding to her without hate all the time. Sure I have lost my temper on here, many have, but for many it is more rare.

I post mostly in the courthouse because I am here to discuss politics and peoples' desire to control others both through force and via the spoken/written word. This left me little use for the other forums. Just because they are more civil does not mean they would work for me. You would likely move all my posts to the courthouse based on the OP or the responses.

So I did look back and noticed that someone being called a girly man was moved to the ring......OMG if even a fraction of the stuff that is less provocative, less off topic and less vile that came from LJ and others was moved to the ring, this problem would go away or be minimized.

I think in the end that would have been my request. When someone starts to flip out, not meaning that they are posting long or pushing their point, but where they refuse to be part of a discussion, constantly off topic and just trying to get folks worked up...this would be a great time to move a thread to the ring - which I was able to get into today without signing in - BTW.

So - given that I stirred up some hoopla and we are having a somewhat decent discussion on the topic (though I would point out that LJ has not posted here yet on this thread, so it is pretty civil, even though folks are disagreeing greatly) I would be willing to moderate this forum, if we could come up with a protocol for identifying vile posts or posts that detract and move them to the ring. Surely if we know that calling someone a girly man belongs there, we can create a set of rules that takes care of the most offensive posts to id them for movement.

A great place to start would be to include examples of what people would call the most mean or inappropriate posts that have not been moved, but if they had been, it would have improved the quality of the civil discussion in the courthouse and allowed those that want to sling shit to hang in the ring.

So again, I am willing to participate, not silence anyone, but perhaps move them into the right forum and take the heat and discuss those decisions with both other posters and management. I will do this for free. I am curious how you work it though, you must take shifts, as my understanding is that many folks have other stuff in their schedules like me and thus moderation will have holes if you have to be on all the time.

I want to be here, I like the positive discussions about negative things. I have spent many many hours responding to negative posts and trying very hard to turn the discussion back on track to something that can add to the community or trying to get folks that are slinging crap to answer simple questions. It does not seem to work. I do not claim I did this 100% of the time. Please be clear on that. I too have dragged down and been dragged by that shifting standard created by vile posts.

So again, I will be willing to be active in fixing this, but I think we need some new, well thought out, perhaps debated rules for how to get vile posts into the the vile ring where they belong so that this place can come closer to reaching its potential, which is clearly seen my most that come here as not being met, but still the best place. There are many parallels between my last statement and our great nation.

The theme of people wanting to leave and doing so to whatever extent and then coming back because they have hope and desire for civil discourse is repeating over and over. People like VL make a scene over it, I dabble in it. It is not healthy and I am not one to either keep my mouth shut or not take action for something I care about.

Thank you so much for this great infrastructure. I hope that the potential seen by all can be reached. Of course there could have been spontaneous cooperation, but that has not come about, and likely because there is not a way to keep people honest - there has not been a way to get people that have taken some kind of liberty to become a hateful speaker on line but somehow not be like that in person. Someone posted how they have met these vile posters and they are not like that in person - geez there are only two options there - acceptable but odd if someone is just playing games with their on line persona - or they are truly a weak and fake person with very little genuine self confidence or confidence in their convictions. But perhaps that was LJs point in doing this....to prove or make others prove how much governing is needed for people. THAT, has left me thinking, but I am pretty sure that even if she likes that this has happened to some extent, I am pretty sure she has not been mean on line for years just to make it happen - I think she was trying to do as I was - to convince people - she just is not into using honey, more into spitting fire.

Peace to all the smart people on here. Let's make this a better place.

Keep me posted and I don't check the email associated with my login, so PM is likely the best way. I did not proof this, so I am sorry and in the vein of my previous attempts at civil discourse on the topic....

...I am really curious to see what the Lady Jazzer persona has to say about this topic. Clearly it is one that many people are in on, has brought people up to the surface that have been hiding. Lady Jazzer, why do you think you have been singled out so much by so many? Lady Jazzer could you even begin to respond to this thread, which I am sure feels like an attack, without going vile the way you do on things that have FAR less to do with you? Do you have any concern for the way you make others in the community feel so bad, when you clearly love being here as much as we do? As I have so many times before, I am asking straight forward questions based very directly on the topic at hand. Will you give your standard starting to be vile answer that you have no responsibility to do anything for anyone (but don't forget to remind us that we all must provide sources for you - sources that support your point or they are made fun of) or can we bring this back around? Do you have any pushy, but not vile questions along the same vein that I could answer or that perhaps I could go to bat trying to get others that boil your blood to answer? You are often very responsive to the concerns of groups of citizens in the larger national or state community, can you responsive to this concern, which you have more power to influence than anything else we ever talk about on this board...EVAH?

Sorry to subject you all to me, I assure you it is only slightly more intense in person. The person you are talking to on line is to a T the person you will meet on the river. Anyone who has actually met me from this board would know it was me in a heartbeat - even from the next isle at Prathers or if you have come into my businesses and talked to me. My family and friends read my posts and laugh, **** is **** all the time. And yes, I know I am an asshole.

Alternative to all of the above...

How about when someone cops an attitude vs. discussing - that is a ring topic - that simple?

Not reading. Cliffs?

FredHayek wrote: Not reading. Cliffs?

Reformatted with "cliff" at end. But the content matters or I would not have posted it, at least it matters to me.

towermonkey wrote: I quit posting here because of the vitriol on both sides. LJ is part of the problem but only part. It is not perspective that is the problem, but the attitude that anyone who disagrees with these posters fits into a box and it is quite apparent the hate they feels towards that box. I don't need hate in my life so, I left.

Couldn't have said it better. But I will say that LJ is more than just PART of the problem. That is why I left this site a long time ago other than the Pick 3 thread.

on that note wrote: I post this after "leaving" out of respect for the creators of this great place and because they responded to this thread.

If I said this place was vile, I apologize for not being clear. Some people's posts are vile.

To all those that implied I should grow a pair, perhaps you missed something. I have stepped up to the plate many times to push topics to their end over and over. I don't give up easily. But eventually it just becomes over the top and not worth it. This does not make someone weak, it means they know their limit. If the limit is always near the bottom of the threshold, that would be weak. I really don't think I have given that impression with my posts, unwilling to engage. Many have said it in different ways on here and I bet that others can relate like me....that someone does not want to hate the world because they go back and forth with LJ....that they are sick of being abused verbally...I have had plenty of fights with my wife over little stuff after reading some of the vile NON back and forth that has resulted from LJesque posting.

Just like when people worry about a bad seed...others have brought up that LJ is not the only one, and I see where you are coming from, I do see it on both of YOUR FAKE "sides" and I see pretty clearly that just like the real world, just like groups of children, that when one starts acting up in an extreme way, that the standard for behavior changes. I believe that many of these folks got dragged down to this level by the queen, since she was so low, say a -10 rating, it made someone like Raees or Otis who could have only been a -2, turn into a -7. Don't take any rating but LJs too seriously, it is just an example, as I said, none of the others stand out as personalities as much. I read most posts based on their content and the other content by the same poster in the same thread. It seems a lot of the instant crap fight that is often started or propped up by LJ comes from stereotyping based on previous threads. I think these threads would make more sense if everyone was not tried over and over for the same previous crime simply because they chose to speak up to the queen...and I admit that all of us behave like her to some extent at different time and on some days she has to relinquish her throne.

Anyone who thought I have the time, patience or effort to run a board was just off. I did not have the idea and give up because a few people posted negatively about the idea.

I tried to moderate LJ by responding to her without hate all the time. Sure I have lost my temper on here, many have, but for many it is more rare.

I post mostly in the courthouse because I am here to discuss politics and peoples' desire to control others both through force and via the spoken/written word. This left me little use for the other forums. Just because they are more civil does not mean they would work for me. You would likely move all my posts to the courthouse based on the OP or the responses.

So I did look back and noticed that someone being called a girly man was moved to the ring......OMG if even a fraction of the stuff that is less provocative, less off topic and less vile that came from LJ and others was moved to the ring, this problem would go away or be minimized.

I think in the end that would have been my request. When someone starts to flip out, not meaning that they are posting long or pushing their point, but where they refuse to be part of a discussion, constantly off topic and just trying to get folks worked up...this would be a great time to move a thread to the ring - which I was able to get into today without signing in - BTW.

So - given that I stirred up some hoopla and we are having a somewhat decent discussion on the topic (though I would point out that LJ has not posted here yet on this thread, so it is pretty civil, even though folks are disagreeing greatly) I would be willing to moderate this forum, if we could come up with a protocol for identifying vile posts or posts that detract and move them to the ring. Surely if we know that calling someone a girly man belongs there, we can create a set of rules that takes care of the most offensive posts to id them for movement.

A great place to start would be to include examples of what people would call the most mean or inappropriate posts that have not been moved, but if they had been, it would have improved the quality of the civil discussion in the courthouse and allowed those that want to sling sh** to hang in the ring.

So again, I am willing to participate, not silence anyone, but perhaps move them into the right forum and take the heat and discuss those decisions with both other posters and management. I will do this for free. I am curious how you work it though, you must take shifts, as my understanding is that many folks have other stuff in their schedules like me and thus moderation will have holes if you have to be on all the time.

I want to be here, I like the positive discussions about negative things. I have spent many many hours responding to negative posts and trying very hard to turn the discussion back on track to something that can add to the community or trying to get folks that are slinging crap to answer simple questions. It does not seem to work. I do not claim I did this 100% of the time. Please be clear on that. I too have dragged down and been dragged by that shifting standard created by vile posts.

So again, I will be willing to be active in fixing this, but I think we need some new, well thought out, perhaps debated rules for how to get vile posts into the the vile ring where they belong so that this place can come closer to reaching its potential, which is clearly seen my most that come here as not being met, but still the best place. There are many parallels between my last statement and our great nation.

The theme of people wanting to leave and doing so to whatever extent and then coming back because they have hope and desire for civil discourse is repeating over and over. People like VL make a scene over it, I dabble in it. It is not healthy and I am not one to either keep my mouth shut or not take action for something I care about.

Thank you so much for this great infrastructure. I hope that the potential seen by all can be reached. Of course there could have been spontaneous cooperation, but that has not come about, and likely because there is not a way to keep people honest - there has not been a way to get people that have taken some kind of liberty to become a hateful speaker on line but somehow not be like that in person. Someone posted how they have met these vile posters and they are not like that in person - geez there are only two options there - acceptable but odd if someone is just playing games with their on line persona - or they are truly a weak and fake person with very little genuine self confidence or confidence in their convictions. But perhaps that was LJs point in doing this....to prove or make others prove how much governing is needed for people. THAT, has left me thinking, but I am pretty sure that even if she likes that this has happened to some extent, I am pretty sure she has not been mean on line for years just to make it happen - I think she was trying to do as I was - to convince people - she just is not into using honey, more into spitting fire.

Peace to all the smart people on here. Let's make this a better place.

Keep me posted and I don't check the email associated with my login, so PM is likely the best way. I did not proof this, so I am sorry and in the vein of my previous attempts at civil discourse on the topic....

...I am really curious to see what the Lady Jazzer persona has to say about this topic. Clearly it is one that many people are in on, has brought people up to the surface that have been hiding. Lady Jazzer, why do you think you have been singled out so much by so many? Lady Jazzer could you even begin to respond to this thread, which I am sure feels like an attack, without going vile the way you do on things that have FAR less to do with you? Do you have any concern for the way you make others in the community feel so bad, when you clearly love being here as much as we do? As I have so many times before, I am asking straight forward questions based very directly on the topic at hand. Will you give your standard starting to be vile answer that you have no responsibility to do anything for anyone (but don't forget to remind us that we all must provide sources for you - sources that support your point or they are made fun of) or can we bring this back around? Do you have any pushy, but not vile questions along the same vein that I could answer or that perhaps I could go to bat trying to get others that boil your blood to answer? You are often very responsive to the concerns of groups of citizens in the larger national or state community, can you responsive to this concern, which you have more power to influence than anything else we ever talk about on this board...EVAH?

Sorry to subject you all to me, I assure you it is only slightly more intense in person. The person you are talking to on line is to a T the person you will meet on the river. Anyone who has actually met me from this board would know it was me in a heartbeat - even from the next isle at Prathers or if you have come into my businesses and talked to me. My family and friends read my posts and laugh, **** is **** all the time. And yes, I know I am an asshole.

Alternative to all of the above...

How about when someone cops an attitude vs. discussing - that is a ring topic - that simple?

You really need to get over yourself. This is simply an internet forum with maybe a dozen to twenty posters. Why don't you just place LJ and others on ignore rather than pontificate about how great and reasonable you are and how terrible LJ is. LJ is an honest poster which is more than some of your "supporters" can claim. Put on you big boy pants and have some fun. Quit taking yourself so seriously, no one else does.

To me the solution is simple in concept but time-consuming from a moderator standpoint: remove any ad hominem (personal) attacks from posts and put them in The Ring. Do that enough and I bet posters will get the idea that only issues be discussed, not individuals. Make it part of the Terms of Service.

As I said, it would be labor intensive, from a moderator standpoint.

Why would anyone want to go to another board. 285 Bound is pretty good. LJ has a right to her opinion as much as you or anyone else. So making your own board because you can't deal with LJ or others on here. Got to get some tough skin and keep on. Things here are not always all pretty and nice. So we deal with it. You have a choice, you can chose to ignore someone, not read a post, not reply to a post, hell for that fact you don't even have to open 285 bound. Life goes on and I will stay right here.