Impeachment proceedings against Trump

20 Mar 2018 10:36 #191 by parkcobound
Personally I am still just waiting for all of the facts, and I sincerely hope we are presented with all of the facts - regardless of what they are. I hope the president is not involved with foreign sources - I think many people want to believe that. I find the guy pretty objectionable, but just because I think he is a jerk does not make him a traitor. I do not understand why he doesn't want the investigation to continue - I am sure it is troublesome, but if he tried to end it now, everyone who thinks he is guilty will REALLY think he is guilty and many who were on the fence will begin to believe it as well. A smart man will let it play out and if there is no collusion that will (or should) be shown and then if the critics want to yell, they could be ignored providing a thorough investigation has been completed. Speculation at this point does little but alienate us from each other.

as for Mr. McCabe - I want to feel bad for him, I really do. If he acted unethically however, he received the proper result - I'd like to see the same outcome for many of our legislators... I would like to think these representatives, both elected and appointed, should be held to a higher standard, as they are in charge of the tax payers hard earned dollars and running our government. Unfortunately, many of them, both elected and appointed as well as hired staffers, I feel, have been falling short of, what I consider to be worthy of, the positions they hold.

My grandma told me one time I talk to much (and I do) and then she told me if I would shut up and listen once in a while I might learn something... I'm still working on that hahah

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20 Mar 2018 13:06 #192 by ramage
ParkCoBound,
No offense but if you are going to wait for all the facts you might want to join the cast of "Waiting for Gidot".
As for wanting to feel bad for McCabe, I must ask, for what reason? The FBI dept, equivalent to Internal Investigation in a Police Dept, found that he "lacked candor" in answering questions, i.e. he lied. Also he doesn't lose his pension as has been reported, rather he will not be able to qualify for another 7 yrs. I wish that I had a job that allowed me 50+K/yr at age 50 and I could get another job and it would still pay out. As an aside this speaks to the issue that government employees should be on a 401-k retirement plan, then he could have gotten whatever he had in his account regardless of the reason for termination.
Our grandmothers must have been neighbors.

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20 Mar 2018 16:49 - 20 Mar 2018 16:51 #193 by Rick

ScienceChic wrote:
Rick, a question for you. How is that Trump's people are the ones who have pleaded guilty of crimes, and yet this is all somehow a conspiracy against Trump?

First of all SC, I'd like to know what news sources you trust, then I'd like to see if those sources have been reporting on the people in the FBI, DOJ, Clinton Campaign, and Obama administration in regards to this whole collusion accusation. Maybe you don't know about facts that clearly taint this whole investigation. As for people around Trump pleading guilty, I agree Manafort is a scumbag and Trump didn't look closely enough at his dealings before bringing him on board, but that doesn't mean Trump is also culpable, just like Obama wasn't for having a relationship with a domestic terrorist or a racist reverend. Flynn's lie is nothing compared to McCabe's lies and abuse of power imo and if we are going to prosecute people for lying to the FBI, the Hillary needs to be made an example of as well.

I wish I could believe that you would not like to see Trump found guilty, but I have a hard time believing that given the title of this thread. I hope that when more evidence is revealed, even true Trump haters will understand that the FBI and DOJ MUST be held to the highest of standards because they can literally destroy any lives they see fit to destroy. If you believe Lorretta Lynch talked to Bill Clinton about grandchildren and not the email investigation or "matter" as she made Comey call it (and Comey is going down too if there's any justice) I just think you must be very naive. Anyway, the IG report is coming out soon and we will once again find the Democrats spinning and twisting the truth. Just watch and see.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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21 Mar 2018 07:25 #194 by FredHayek
I know the Mueller investigation will find something, but will it actually qualify as high crimes and misdemeanors? Contact with foreign governments before an election does not automatically qualify. Candidate Obama went on a foreign tour before his election, meeting with heads of state of numerous nations. Would you consider that treason?

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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21 Mar 2018 09:02 #195 by parkcobound
you are right about McCabe - the fact is I try to see every side of a situation and the man spent his life working for the FBI, that's the only reason I want to feel bad for him.... if he did wrong, he did wrong and no where other than a government job would you still receive a pension after getting fired - for any reason. You may be correct about my waiting not working out - but I just am not comfortable with coming down on either side of this at this point. I come from a family of DEVOUT democrats, as in...if you voted for someone else, you're a traitor, but over the years I have watched the democratic party disintegrate - they are totally disorganized and both parties seem to be way more interested in getting re-elected than in getting anything done. I don't know about everyone else, but I feel like I am watching the news every evening with this sense of ..watching a slow motion 20 car pile up at the ET.... where is this going to end? IS it going to end? If the conclude the investigation into the collusion issue - will either side accept the outcome? I have friends that I think will never believe the outcome if it isn't what they think it should be - they won't be eating crow, they will just yell louder. I think that's why I'm on here..... If it gets too loud in here, I can leave the room.... if I get into an argument with friends they may not be friends later.
There are folks that I know that won't talk to each other after this is over - our country is divided and at about 50/50.... so either way this thing goes.... or if there isn't clear resolution one way or another this will not end well. Our Country seems like a very unhappy place right now and I just don't see that getting resolved any time soon.

btw, I miss my Grandma ...she was a smart cookie - and she was an awesome cook! now I'm hungry for jelly roll ;)

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21 Mar 2018 15:30 #196 by ScienceChic
To answer your questions Rick, all you have to do is look back through the sources of what I've posted here and in the American Intelligence & Election Hacking topic. I don't trust entire media organizations, I trust individual people who've demonstrated that what they've written is credible, well-researched, and come to pass because as I've mentioned in a previous post, there are journalists who've been compromised and are reportedly under investigation by the SCO too (supposedly including Lewandowski, Hannity, Bannon, & Alex Jones to name a few). The New York Times, for example, has had both good in-depth articles and shallow, partisan hack pieces. Same for the Wall St Journal, Wash Post, MSNBC, and CNN. Shep Smith on FOX makes me smile sometimes.

The people I trust most: SpicyFiles/SpicerLies (she's like my scientist twin but for law), Natasha Bertrand, Molly McKew, Ale Vaughn, John Schindler, Renato Mariotti, Counterchekist, Caroline O., Louise Mensch, Sarah Smith. Note that this doesn't mean that I blindly believe every word they say or agree 100% with everything they say, but for the most part, they seem to have the knowledge, most credible sources, and/or do the in-depth reporting that I like to see.

On the title of this thread: I've explained multiple times that it's a fact that articles of impeachment have been filed against Trump. That is a fact. Whether they will be followed through remains to be seen based on what comes of this investigation. Let me ask you: if there is indeed video of him raping a 13 year old girl, or proof that he's been involved in human trafficking, would you finally then repudiate him? He's already admitting to groping women without consent, has 5 kids by 3 different wives and cheated on them all, possibly been involved in attempts to pay off porn stars to keep them quiet about affairs, refused to release his tax returns and kept his business holdings in a clear conflict of interest...what would finally cross your line on supporting this amoral, spoiled, narcissistic, greedy blowhard?

Once upon a time you said you were hoping that they'd release both Nunes and the Democratic response memo, they are both out - did you get a chance to read through them both? What did you think?

FH, the Special Counsel's investigation has found something - lots of something. 19 indictments and several guilty plea deals later, and even more sealed indictments waiting. Louise Mensch has stated that Trump and his family are already indicted, and her track record is getting pretty impressive.

If they continue to go after the smaller fish first, and get some of them to become informants, then they can use their evidence and testimony rather than blowing the cover on classified material and undercover agents. That's why this is taking so long, that plus there are hundreds of people being investigated and multiple crimes having been committed. It's not that they haven't found evidence of "collusion" (conspiracy, really), it's that they are conducting a thorough and professional investigation following the evidence, not public opinion. Have you not noticed that there are no leaks from Mueller's team? Any news we hear comes from leaks in the White House and Congress, people there who are contacted and from whom info is requested.



"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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21 Mar 2018 18:48 - 21 Mar 2018 18:52 #197 by Blazer Bob

ScienceChic wrote: this amoral, spoiled, narcissistic, greedy blowhard


Thanks for telling us what you really think but what about that makes him different than most presidents. :P

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25 Mar 2018 13:06 #198 by ScienceChic

Blazer Bob wrote:

ScienceChic wrote: this amoral, spoiled, narcissistic, greedy blowhard


Thanks for telling us what you really think but what about that makes him different than most presidents. :P

They weren't traitors working for the enemy.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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25 Mar 2018 13:47 #199 by Carrie
If the Republicans save the country it will, unfortunately no longer be a democracy. When people so blindly elect a narcissistic, inexperienced, racist adulterer as POTUS because he said he would make America great again, with no logical plan, because he is a Republican, God help this country. He insults and punishes our Allies, as well as our citizens (look at Puerto Rico), disrespects our veterans (look at the immigrant with two tours in Afghanistan that he allowed, or had, deported), disrespects his own family and women in general, doesn't believe in science (global warming) or economics (coal will come back), and sheep follow him, God help the U.S. The main threat to this country is not from outside--it is from within.

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25 Mar 2018 15:35 #200 by hillfarmer
Well said. The forces of tribalism and authoritarianism are ramping up their fight against reason and democracy. It has been heartening to see the vast number of Americans who recognize the threats and are standing up against it. Vigilance is indeed the price of freedom.

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