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No offense SC, but in this entire thread I haven't seen you post anything that would come close to an opposing viewpoint in which you have considered. You've posted page after page of one sided assumptions and allegations and never touched the serious flaws in the way this whole investigation was started. I saw nothing about the phony dossier that was presented to the FISA court (and renewed 4 times) which was unverified nonsense paid for by the enemies of Trump, both Republican and Democrat. No mention that the FISA court was not given all the facts and that the dossier was not verified at all. No deep look into the fact that the top people in the FBI were actually trying to prevent Trump from holding office with their "insurance policy". No Democrats and no media, other than a handful of conservative sources, were at all interested in the frauds and biases that made this investigation possible from the get go. There was just this massive unsubstantiated assumption the Trump must be guilty because he was being investigated. CNN and MSNBC spent almost three years hammering this garbage into the ears of their viewers with people like Brennen (former CIA chief)and Clapper (Obama's national security head) calling Trump a traitor and possible Russian agent. All baseless assumptions that could only help the Dems take back the house.ScienceChic wrote: If anyone merely believes what they read because it already supports their beliefs and biases, and will not consider opposing evidence or viewpoints, then they are as guilty as those they condemn for believing "fake news." Critical thinking is a requirement for all, not just one side or another.
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I have no doubt some Russians tried to influence the election, but that's a whole lot different than a case where the president is working with the Russians. So do we now create a special council every time a foreign government tries to interfere with an election? I always thought these kind of investigations were done by the FBI and CIA and limited to the parties in which we have actual evidence. I also thought that FISA warrants to spy on American citizens required verified evidence that would warrant that invasion of privacy. If this is the new precedent, then this country has lost a big part of what made it a great place to live.chrisd3711 wrote:
The bottom line is that there was clearly enough evidence to create a Special Counsel to investigate the interference of Russia in the 2016 election and events related to that now well-established interference.
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chrisd3711 wrote: OK, I will take the bait. Obama was not perfect, but he was / is a saint compared to our current President. Why the animus? Let's just say that Donald Trump is not my kind of guy. As for any deep state musings, how about the deep state of white supremacy? Trump may deny any association with individuals conspiring to advance such thinking, but he certainly does not condemn them as anathema to what truly would make America great again!
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Because the assertions about the FISA warrants being issued illegally were lies by Devin Nunes and it's not my job to present your counter-argument for you. It's your job to bring the credible sources and try to change my mind. Posting your opinion without sources is perfectly fine, but I can tell you now that you won't change anyone's mind without evidence.Rick wrote:
No offense SC, but in this entire thread I haven't seen you post anything that would come close to an opposing viewpoint in which you have considered. You've posted page after page of one sided assumptions and allegations and never touched the serious flaws in the way this whole investigation was started. I saw nothing about the phony dossier that was presented to the FISA court (and renewed 4 times) which was unverified nonsense paid for by the enemies of Trump, both Republican and Democrat. No mention that the FISA court was not given all the facts and that the dossier was not verified at all. No deep look into the fact that the top people in the FBI were actually trying to prevent Trump from holding office with their "insurance policy". No Democrats and no media, other than a handful of conservative sources, were at all interested in the frauds and biases that made this investigation possible from the get go. There was just this massive unsubstantiated assumption the Trump must be guilty because he was being investigated. CNN and MSNBC spent almost three years hammering this garbage into the ears of their viewers with people like Brennen (former CIA chief)and Clapper (Obama's national security head) calling Trump a traitor and possible Russian agent. All baseless assumptions that could only help the Dems take back the house.ScienceChic wrote: If anyone merely believes what they read because it already supports their beliefs and biases, and will not consider opposing evidence or viewpoints, then they are as guilty as those they condemn for believing "fake news." Critical thinking is a requirement for all, not just one side or another.
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Show me any of your trusted sources that used actual journalistic methods to look at all sides of this investigation, including the investigators who were all anti-Trump people from the beginning of this whole joke. I'm only aware of one major news source who giot this right, and they are supposedly the "fake news" channel. Everyone else should be apologizing and trying to regain some small amount of credibility, because today they have NONE.
What You Need To Know About The Much-Discussed Carter Page FISA DocumentThe Carter Page FISAs are out via the Freedom of Information Act. Here are a few observations, relatively brief but still just a bit too long for Twitter.
First, a huge amount of information is redacted in these FISA applications, but they still represent a monumental disclosure to the public.
Based on this back and forth between the HPSCI partisans, I wrote on Lawfare at the time that the FBI’s disclosures on Steele “amply satisfie[d] the requirements” for FISA applications, and that the central irony of the Nunes memo was that it “tried to deceive the American people in precisely the same way that it falsely accused the FBI of deceiving the FISA Court.” The Nunes memo accused the FBI of dishonesty in failing to disclose information about Steele, but in fact the Nunes memo itself was dishonest in failing to disclose what the FBI disclosed. I said then, and I still believe, that the “Nunes memo was dishonest. And if it is allowed to stand, we risk significant collateral damage to essential elements of our democracy.”
Now we have some additional information in the form of the redacted FISA applications themselves, and the Nunes memo looks even worse.
Now that portions are public, it is clear that the FISA application does not name Trump or Clinton or Fusion GPS or Simpson or Steele nor detail the political background.
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