Impeachment proceedings against Trump

25 Mar 2019 13:48 #471 by chrisd3711
Again, I personally feel that it is unfortunate that this thread is entitled "Impeachment proceedings against Trump." It may lead ther, but but there is no reason to believe that it will. As a "tie-dyed in the cotton" Democrat, I was, to say the least, discouraged when Trump was elected President in 2016. Yes, I voted for Hillary, but I was far from pleased with the two choices that we as voters were given. Once the election results were in, I then (and now) placed my faith and trust in the institutions of our country. That faith and trust has largely been reinforced by the events of the past two years.

The bottom line is that there was clearly enough evidence to create a Special Counsel to investigate the interference of Russia in the 2016 election and events related to that now well-established interference. Again, there 34 indictments (and five guilty pleas by Trump associates) that came about as a result of this "witch hunt." It was certainly not a "waste of time." To somehow brand Mueller, known to be a Republican, as a co-conspirator in a blatant effort to somehow take down Trump in a non-military "coup" is absurd at best.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ScienceChic, parkcobound

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25 Mar 2019 16:11 #472 by ramage
i have to ask, what is the cause of your animus to President Trump? The international policies, the tax reform, the increase in minority employment? Or do you simply hate the individual? On this forum he has been called and anti-semite, (though his daughter and grandchildren are orthodox Jews). Racist, though no proof is ever offered. He is called misogynist, I asked of one of the individuals posting to give an example, none was forthcoming.
I don't expect an answer.
Aspen Septic Tank drains the swamp in the mountains, President Trump needs their help in Washington, D.C.
Let's raise funds for Aspen Septic to go to D.C, and do the job.

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25 Mar 2019 21:27 #473 by FredHayek
Might want to change the title of this thread. "The Failed Attempt To Impeach President Trump".

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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26 Mar 2019 15:32 #474 by Rick

ScienceChic wrote: If anyone merely believes what they read because it already supports their beliefs and biases, and will not consider opposing evidence or viewpoints, then they are as guilty as those they condemn for believing "fake news." Critical thinking is a requirement for all, not just one side or another.
.

No offense SC, but in this entire thread I haven't seen you post anything that would come close to an opposing viewpoint in which you have considered. You've posted page after page of one sided assumptions and allegations and never touched the serious flaws in the way this whole investigation was started. I saw nothing about the phony dossier that was presented to the FISA court (and renewed 4 times) which was unverified nonsense paid for by the enemies of Trump, both Republican and Democrat. No mention that the FISA court was not given all the facts and that the dossier was not verified at all. No deep look into the fact that the top people in the FBI were actually trying to prevent Trump from holding office with their "insurance policy". No Democrats and no media, other than a handful of conservative sources, were at all interested in the frauds and biases that made this investigation possible from the get go. There was just this massive unsubstantiated assumption the Trump must be guilty because he was being investigated. CNN and MSNBC spent almost three years hammering this garbage into the ears of their viewers with people like Brennen (former CIA chief)and Clapper (Obama's national security head) calling Trump a traitor and possible Russian agent. All baseless assumptions that could only help the Dems take back the house.

Show me any of your trusted sources that used actual journalistic methods to look at all sides of this investigation, including the investigators who were all anti-Trump people from the beginning of this whole joke. I'm only aware of one major news source who giot this right, and they are supposedly the "fake news" channel. Everyone else should be apologizing and trying to regain some small amount of credibility, because today they have NONE.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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26 Mar 2019 15:48 #475 by Rick

chrisd3711 wrote:
The bottom line is that there was clearly enough evidence to create a Special Counsel to investigate the interference of Russia in the 2016 election and events related to that now well-established interference.

I have no doubt some Russians tried to influence the election, but that's a whole lot different than a case where the president is working with the Russians. So do we now create a special council every time a foreign government tries to interfere with an election? I always thought these kind of investigations were done by the FBI and CIA and limited to the parties in which we have actual evidence. I also thought that FISA warrants to spy on American citizens required verified evidence that would warrant that invasion of privacy. If this is the new precedent, then this country has lost a big part of what made it a great place to live.

I think when the full truth comes out (hopefully it will), we will find that the people in the highest positions of power in this country abused their power to subvert and deny the will of the people their choice for president.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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26 Mar 2019 22:37 #476 by Blazer Bob
Didn't someone up stream say that the deep state is a right wing conspiracy theory?
Riddle me this.

www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2019-3-...f-the-mueller-report

Or this for that matter. The only way this fool becomes CIA director is if the deep state gave him many legs up.

John Brennan Tries to Explain: It's Not My Fault I Called Trump a Russian Traitor, I Got Bad Information
townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/...information-n2543697

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27 Mar 2019 07:20 #477 by Pony Soldier
It is pretty obvious that the full weight of the intel agencies were turned against a political opponent and this sham of an investigation was nothing but cover for that crime. You can crow about the "true north" or other such nonsense, but when the rubber hits the road, you'll find Obama was the most unethical and likely the most criminal president in history.

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27 Mar 2019 09:50 #478 by chrisd3711
OK, I will take the bait. Obama was not perfect, but he was / is a saint compared to our current President. Why the animus? Let's just say that Donald Trump is not my kind of guy. As for any deep state musings, how about the deep state of white supremacy? Trump may deny any association with individuals conspiring to advance such thinking, but he certainly does not condemn them as anathema to what truly would make America great again!

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27 Mar 2019 09:56 #479 by Pony Soldier

chrisd3711 wrote: OK, I will take the bait. Obama was not perfect, but he was / is a saint compared to our current President. Why the animus? Let's just say that Donald Trump is not my kind of guy. As for any deep state musings, how about the deep state of white supremacy? Trump may deny any association with individuals conspiring to advance such thinking, but he certainly does not condemn them as anathema to what truly would make America great again!


I think we will find out/ are finding out that Obama ordered his Justice department to illegally spy on the opposition party's candidate. That is illegal and is an anathema to what truly makes America great. It is MUCH worse than Watergate. It is banana republic skullduggery that needs to be rooted out and prosecuted, but will never be because we have a dual justice system. (see Jussie Smollett)

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27 Mar 2019 10:33 #480 by ScienceChic

Rick wrote:

ScienceChic wrote: If anyone merely believes what they read because it already supports their beliefs and biases, and will not consider opposing evidence or viewpoints, then they are as guilty as those they condemn for believing "fake news." Critical thinking is a requirement for all, not just one side or another.
.

No offense SC, but in this entire thread I haven't seen you post anything that would come close to an opposing viewpoint in which you have considered. You've posted page after page of one sided assumptions and allegations and never touched the serious flaws in the way this whole investigation was started. I saw nothing about the phony dossier that was presented to the FISA court (and renewed 4 times) which was unverified nonsense paid for by the enemies of Trump, both Republican and Democrat. No mention that the FISA court was not given all the facts and that the dossier was not verified at all. No deep look into the fact that the top people in the FBI were actually trying to prevent Trump from holding office with their "insurance policy". No Democrats and no media, other than a handful of conservative sources, were at all interested in the frauds and biases that made this investigation possible from the get go. There was just this massive unsubstantiated assumption the Trump must be guilty because he was being investigated. CNN and MSNBC spent almost three years hammering this garbage into the ears of their viewers with people like Brennen (former CIA chief)and Clapper (Obama's national security head) calling Trump a traitor and possible Russian agent. All baseless assumptions that could only help the Dems take back the house.

Show me any of your trusted sources that used actual journalistic methods to look at all sides of this investigation, including the investigators who were all anti-Trump people from the beginning of this whole joke. I'm only aware of one major news source who giot this right, and they are supposedly the "fake news" channel. Everyone else should be apologizing and trying to regain some small amount of credibility, because today they have NONE.

Because the assertions about the FISA warrants being issued illegally were lies by Devin Nunes and it's not my job to present your counter-argument for you. It's your job to bring the credible sources and try to change my mind. Posting your opinion without sources is perfectly fine, but I can tell you now that you won't change anyone's mind without evidence.

Here's a summary by some a lawyer at the Lawfare Blog, and it links to the FISA for Carter Page so you can read it for yourself.
What to Make of the Carter Page FISA Applications
By David Kris, Lawfare Blog | Saturday, July 21, 2018

The Carter Page FISAs are out via the Freedom of Information Act. Here are a few observations, relatively brief but still just a bit too long for Twitter.

First, a huge amount of information is redacted in these FISA applications, but they still represent a monumental disclosure to the public.

Based on this back and forth between the HPSCI partisans, I wrote on Lawfare at the time that the FBI’s disclosures on Steele “amply satisfie[d] the requirements” for FISA applications, and that the central irony of the Nunes memo was that it “tried to deceive the American people in precisely the same way that it falsely accused the FBI of deceiving the FISA Court.” The Nunes memo accused the FBI of dishonesty in failing to disclose information about Steele, but in fact the Nunes memo itself was dishonest in failing to disclose what the FBI disclosed. I said then, and I still believe, that the “Nunes memo was dishonest. And if it is allowed to stand, we risk significant collateral damage to essential elements of our democracy.”

Now we have some additional information in the form of the redacted FISA applications themselves, and the Nunes memo looks even worse.

What You Need To Know About The Much-Discussed Carter Page FISA Document
Philip Ewing, NPR | July 23, 2018

Now that portions are public, it is clear that the FISA application does not name Trump or Clinton or Fusion GPS or Simpson or Steele nor detail the political background.


To the assertion that this thread is unfortunately named, or should be renamed. Sorry, but as I stated earlier in the thread, it's titled the way it is because there were indeed motions to impeach filed in Congress and as of yet, this issue is not resolved. Not a single soul outside of the SCO and AG Barr/DAG Rosenstein has seen the full report, there remain 16 outside investigations into Trump/his businesses/his inaugural committee, and several open Congressional requests on this matter. The discussion continues...

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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