Just to set the record straight

Sunshine Girl wrote:
Itsme, could you please copy and paste where jmc2 posted negative comments. For me this is the main problem I have with your comments about him. If my memory serves me correctly I believe jmc2 posted on PC of his offer to help. Some have made comments that he came on there and did, or said, something wrong. I must have missed it.

I think JMC and I have hashed this out enough and are done. I'm not going to post anything more about it. If you want to discuss in PM.s I can explain what prompted my comments.

yipppeee!! i see everyone's point but in my view it goes on adnauseum. best of luck to all ventures.

LopingAlong wrote:

AVs Good Twin wrote: OK, who cares?

Posting a PM without permission was an online no no but not a BIG issue.
:

So if a site will post a PM, what else will they do that might be unethical? B/c to me, that was unethical.

Will those in a power position read PM's of posters, for example?

It is a trust issue. And though it wasn't pc that posted that PM, they ALLOWED it. They, the ones who edit, moderate and pull lots of posts per week, allowed that particular PM to stand. Why? I can't ask that there or I would. I belong to, like, and post to both sites so this is not intended as any kind of slam to pc; I'm just curious what you think of the ethical aspects--where you would draw the line on what is ok and what is a big issue? Thanks!

final post on this subject

In my book posting the PM is not a big deal. If the admins were opening the DB & reading PM's that would be a big deal.

I do know a few things that were done at PC over the years that I would consider a big deal. If the public knew some of these things then some people wouldn't be held up as saints.

We agree again Av's good twin!

Agree with you on that last part AV's! Thanks for answering. 'Nuff said!

itsme wrote:

Sunshine Girl wrote:
Itsme, could you please copy and paste where jmc2 posted negative comments. For me this is the main problem I have with your comments about him. If my memory serves me correctly I believe jmc2 posted on PC of his offer to help. Some have made comments that he came on there and did, or said, something wrong. I must have missed it.

I think JMC and I have hashed this out enough and are done. I'm not going to post anything more about it. If you want to discuss in PM.s I can explain what prompted my comments.

Fair enough itsme and no need for a PM. I never read anything negative jmc2 posted on PC and I firmly believe his desire to be of service was sincere - even if it was not received that way. I believe he is a good man, fair, smart, a good businessman, has a strong desire to see this model succeed, cares deeply about his community AND invests in it, and above all, provides an uncensored voice for ALL. Whew! How's that for singing someone's praises? Glad you two hashed things out and welcome to the board. I hope you stick around. Since it seems like your not shy about sharing your opinion of things (color me silly, but I think that's a great quality to have ) I hope to read your take on other things too in the future. Hope you and yours have a wonderful holiday season itsme!

justin wrote:

Sunshine Girl wrote: Whew, I'm glad to get that off my chest.

Certainly not noticeable from where I'm sitting.

Seems to me that you people should be grateful that pinecam even exists.
It given you a prototype to build on, someplace to rebel against,
brought you all together and most importantly,
given you something to bitch and bash about.

If life's so great here, why in the hell do you keep posting pages of crap about pinecam?

I'm new here and just reading through the forums and honestly,
some of you are like a bunch of middle school girls with pms.

Oh you're SOOOO right, Justin, because prior to 2002, NO forums existed on the internet anywhere - Pinecam was clearly the first forum anywhere in the world!

If you didn't get the sarcasm there, I don't know what to say.

I've been involved in internet forums since 1991 - and those weren't even the first. Even the beginning MUDDs - the precursor to the current MOGS, had the ability to post things and respond to them - IE forums.

Pinecam is a basic forum; look through the web, you will find thousands if not millions EXACTLY like it.

The prototypes came long before that site existed.

Or shall we run about thanking Al Gore now for inventing the interwebs? Please. Give me a break.

itsme wrote:

JMC wrote: Sorry IM , I was out today, My point has always been that both sites are for profit, both want to reflect the community, they screwed up a trust, and that hurt hundreds of our citizens.
PC has every right to do whatever they decide for their purpose. I have every right to question their purpose. They are for profit but make and contribute very little per their potential ( they choose).

I know you're disappointed with them not being a money making venture. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Where I believe it crosses the line is where a business owner goes into a competitor's business and stirs up trouble. Which you, and now Robyn, have done at PC. It's a matter of business ethics. And plugging your business isn't kosher, either.

If I'm down at the hardware store shooting the bull with the guys working there and an electrician who happens to be there, and somebody comes in and asks about another electrician, I feel perfectly free to give my opinion that the guy asked about sucks. However, I think it is unethical for the other electrician to say so.

If a restaurant owner goes into another restaurant and states that the food is bad and it's much better at his place, I consider that to be unethical.

If you think those things are acceptable behavior in the business world, then keep up the good work, I guess.

JMC wrote: They silence, intimidate and now deal with an alternative that they are baffled by.. I am not going to and will not back down. They ban ,we debate.
They silence voices they disagree with them, we do not. They are invited here to debate , we are banned from debating there.
Everyone is free to choose. They had so much potential and screwed it up because of lazy arrogant thinking.
Blame 285b , I love it!

I'm not defending them. I've been suspended before and probably will be again. The moderation is on the heavy side but I believe some moderation is called for. I'm only addressing your behavior as a business owner.

I don't think they are "baffled" by your alternative sites. I don't think they care about your site. The users are annoyed that people keep stirring up trouble there. There are other sites but those people aren't going over to PC withe negative comments about it.

I agree that you had every right to respond to Xenon's post as it was inaccurate. It's too bad you didn't let it go there. If folks from this site don't post negative things there, I doubt you'll ever see another post about this site.

It's obvious that a lot of people on this site hate PC but let it go. Try and see how long you can go without even mentioning it. Make this site about 285bound.com and not about bashing PC. The lack of negatively will go a long way toward making your business model more viable as well. It's going to be harder to sell if potential customers visit and continue to see the negativity toward another site.

Point of fact - Pinecam IS a FOR PROFIT venture. They, just as JMC does, put the money back into the business- just like any businessman does. It's easy to look up, and it was pointed out in the now locked thread.

Noble? I'm sorry, Pinecam as it is now - is that noble? It WAS noble when Wayne opened his little site up to the community at large, but face it, it's been a long time since the Hayman fires, and I've failed to see anything noble about them in the past four years.

I don't get how exactly a new business is supposed to be "noble" to be acceptable. There isn't a single business from Morrison to Fairplay that even considered "nobility" when they opened it. The reasons vary as to why people open and run businesses, including this one, but the nobility of it doesn't come into play. Usefulness, demand, profit - those are what is thought of.

YES, Pinecam and 285Bound DO have a similar business model - you can choose to be blind to that if you wish, that's your choice.

I get it now - you have great animosity toward JMC, so anything he does clearly must be sh*te. He could save your life, and you'd still hate him. I'm getting it. You were being an asshole about JMC, which in turn, lends itself to to the site, cause you chose to discuss the site and not him.

So basically, anything you have to say on the matter is pointless, because you hate the owner, no matter what value the site has now or in the future.

And no, I'm not going to PM - I don't play that kind of game. What I have to say is said here, where everyone can see the full context.

Man! Is everyone in the world now so bad at reading comprehension that I have to explain things over and over??? I don't mean here, I mean everywhere online! If you want to slam me, how about addressing my actual written words and not what you think I'm saying or implying? Is that really to much to ask?

Local_Historian wrote:
Point of fact - Pinecam IS a FOR PROFIT venture.

Wrong! PC is a for profit corporation not a for profit venture. Unlike how others treat me, I'm not going to put words in your mouth. Are you saying that PC exists to make a profit? That's their goal? Where did you get that?

Local_Historian wrote: They, just as JMC does, put the money back into the business- just like any businessman does. It's easy to look up, and it was pointed out in the now locked thread.

Right. I never said anything different. Show me where I did.

What type of profit are you referring to? Gross profit (PC, maybe) or operating profit (Jim, hopefully). I could be wrong but my understanding is that the owners here would like to make an operating profit. GOOD FOR THEM! I once again wish them the best before somebody else mis-interprets what I'm saying.

Local_Historian wrote: Noble? I'm sorry, Pinecam as it is now - is that noble?

I didn't say Pinecam was noble. Go back to that thread and look at my remarks in context and maybe you'll see what I mean.

Local_Historian wrote: I don't get how exactly a new business is supposed to be "noble" to be acceptable.

Did I say anything that a business must be noble? Show me where. Of course, I didn't. What a ridiculous statement! My favorite business up here is Aspen Park Hardware. Friendly place with great customer service. Absolutely love the place. Is the business noble? Of course not. It's a hardware store.

And to clear something up. If something is not noble, fantastic, best ever, etc. That does not mean it is base, horrible, worst. Got it?

Local_Historian wrote: Face it, you where giving JMC sh*t and we all know it.

You've got everything else wrong so far so it's no surprise you have come to the wrong conclusion. And do you really speak for everyone here? I doubt even Jim thinks that's what my motivation was.

What would be my motivation to "give him sh*t" as you so eloquently put it? I'm not defending PC. I do like the site but that doesn't make them above criticism. I have nothing against him personally. Our PM's have been quite civil. I just don't think it's right for one business to go to a competitor's business and stir things up or make negative comments. I know I didn't change his mind and he didn't change mine so it is what it is at this point and we've let it go. But if you do know anything about me from PC it should be that I don't let others misconstrue my remarks.

Is this where I use profanity or call you a name? I'm still new at this. (Just kidding!)

You've got everything else wrong so far so it's no surprise you have come to the wrong conclusion. And do you really speak for everyone here? I doubt even Jim thinks that's what my motivation was.

What would be my motivation to "give him sh*t" as you so eloquently put it? I'm not defending PC. I do like the site but that doesn't make them above criticism. I have nothing against him personally. Our PM's have been quite civil. I just don't think it's right for one business to go to a competitor's business and stir things up or make negative comments. I know I didn't change his mind and he didn't change mine so it is what it is at this point and we've let it go. But if you do know anything about me from PC it should be that I don't let others misconstrue my remarks.

Is this where I use profanity or call you a name? I'm still new at this. (Just kidding!)

Itsme- There is no reason to decide on motivation for anyone. Just remember we did not go on there just to 'stir things up'. Besides if people did do that, we don't have a problem with it, happens here all the time and we handle it. Personal info is the only content we remove, well and spam etc. We were brought up on their forum and there were some mistakes in the post, and we sent a private email to clear that up (out of respect, we could have posted it and didn't) and it ended up on their site. How is it we were going to a competitor and stirring things up? Just curious. I love that you are posting your concerns BTW.

And if you want to call a name or use profanity please use a star. LOL J/K