Can you question patriotism?

towermonkey wrote: I throw nachos at them the entire game if I see them disrespecting the National Anthem that way. I'm pretty good at doing it without attracting any notice. Its pretty funny to see them looking around trying to figure out who's attacking them.

That was you? :jk2:

Thanks for your reply CB. You need to learn how to use the "Quote" button at the top of the page. Far easier to separate your words from mine. Okay

ComputerBreath wrote: OK, since you are so anxious to hear and/or see what I saw, here it is:

NOTE: Original postings are in quotations with my responses below the quoted area.

"If there is one thing that gets a liberal it is calling them out on whether or not their conduct is that of a patriot. Note I said conduct. A thought, or a belief is not conduct. Then there are those who believe they are beyond reproach."

ComputerBreath wrote: Seems to me this is an assumption and opinion, not fact.

This statement proves one of two things. Either you pay no attention to what goes on around you and to what people say, or you don't get out much.

"The glaring example of this around here would be
guntottingliberal wrote:
I am an Honorably Discharged Veteran. I served 6 years active duty in the United States Navy. 5 years in the Naval Reserves. 8 years as a contractor for the United States Navy. And currently 2 years as a contractor for the US Dept of Commerce. I served my country and continue to serve my country. If you want to question my patriotism because you disagree with my views on the environment, first ask yourself what have you done for your country."

I am completely unsure where this quote is taken from. I would presume it is from a post made somewhere else and is not in context...I don't see the reason guntotingliberal jumped to his own defense and (yes, I agree) started pounding his chest about being a patriot for having served in the military and worked for the government. It seems to me that maybe he was attacked and possibly provoked.[/quote]

"What we have here is another life spent on the govt. tit. No clue of how money is made."

ComputerBreath wrote: Again, your idea that someone who has worked for the govt ("...spent on the govt tit") and because of this has no clue how money is made, is opinion, not fact. We all know that money is made at government controlled mints, under jurisdiction of the Federal Reserve...but that doesn't have anything to do with this post. Former and current government workers may not be in positions to actually generate funds for their office or department; however, they do know how to manage money...doing so judiciously is another story...there are some that do, and some that don't, same as in the civilian world and in countries around the Earth.

It is totally relevant. If you have no clue what is involved in trying to run a company being oppressed by govt. regulation and taxation you have no right to be trying to get even more regulations and laws passed and imposed on them just to suit your selfish worldview. "Till you walk a mile in their shoes........ STFU"

"There are plenty of people who are joining the military and military reserves for reasons other than love of country."

ComputerBreath wrote: So an individual that joins because they want an education or to see the world doesn't love their country?

Again yet another liberal delusion. The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. It isn't a social welfare program. It isn't a tour guide service.
I know that that is the little dog and pony show they put on in their recruitment advertising, but that is the worm to hook all the young impressionable fish they need to make their quotas.

"Some are joining for the carrots that the recruiters are dangling."

ComputerBreath wrote: Everything the recruiter says is a carrot dangling in front of the individual...ever heard that recruiters lie? Well...by law they cannot outright lie, but they can skew the truth and they are taught salesman skills that are extraordinary...I've watched some of their teaching sessions as I used to belong to the Air Force training unit that trained recruiters their skills. Their whole goal after they start wearing the recruiter "cookie" is to meet their monthly and annual recruiting goals...and there are extraordinary lengths and a lot of time spent doing so.

So you admit that a percentage of the skulls full of mush they hoodwink are not signing on the line because of love of country or a desire to be part of the military, but rather what they can get out of it. Put another way, "Ask not what I do for my country, but what can my country do for me". (Sorry Jack)

"Some are joining just so they can undermine the efforts of the military."

ComputerBreath wrote: Please let me know any of these people...names, ages, and addresses please so I can "help" them get three hots and a cot at a Federal prison. Subversion is punishable by death during war-time and I still have friends in the military that I don't want to see injured or killed by an idiot.

Do you pay any attention to the news? And do tell where the death penalty has been executed by the US military for anything post WWII?

"Some are joining out of frustration with home life."

ComputerBreath wrote: This is true. I joined because I would have gotten no where on my own in the place I was at when I graduated high school. Don't knock these individuals...I know a lot of them who have become fantastic leaders and followers. People that I want in the foxhole next to me 'cuz they'd have my back.

"According to John "I once served in Vietnam" Kerry some are joining out of desperation."

ComputerBreath wrote: True...go to jail or join the military. Stay in the projects and possibly get raped, maimed, killed or be forced to join a gang. Desperation also causes suicide, homicide, rape, drug and alcohol use, depression, etc. I'd rather someone join out of desperation and learn to love what they are doing for their country than have them become a violent gang member and kill an innocent. And I realize that there are gang members who join specifically to get leadership skills and experience with weapons...these people also deserve three hots and a cot in Federal prison.

"Point is not everyone who joins the military is doing it because they are a patriot in their heart."

ComputerBreath wrote: You are correct; however, as I posted in my first post...most that do join the military become a patriot...it is called a change of heart...and if the individual truly takes to heart the change of lifestyle the military requires, they become patriots through and through. Those that do not change their hearts...well, they can stay in Afghanistan.

Most is not the same as all. This is what I mean by the liberal mind seeing what it wants to see rather than what is there.

"Spending your working life living off the taxpayers tit doesn't make you a patriot."

ComputerBreath wrote: Is this a general statement or directed at someone in particular? I read it to mean that anyone who works for any government entity (federal, state, county...military or civilian) lives off the taxpayers. Well, each and every one of them are taxpayers so in essence they are paying part of their own salary, therefore living off of themselves. And, you are correct...just 'cuz you work for the government and your salary is paid for by taxpayers...that doesn't make a person a patriot.

If a farmer grows 100 tons of oranges and the govt takes 30 tons as taxes and hands 5 tons of the oranges to their employees, then takes back 1/2ton as tax it is just a masquerade or an illusion. They could just as easily have given them 4 1/2 tons and taken nothing and save a whole lot of paperwork. Because the govt. employee produced zilch. They are just a remora living off the production of the farmer, and the factory worker etc

"And claiming it does makes you look like an ass."

ComputerBreath wrote: Again, is this a generalized statement or directed at someone in particular? I may act like an ass at times, but I certainly don't look like an ass...they have far more fur and a longer nose than I do.

"The guys and gals who get up every day and go and bust their hump on the farm, mine, oil field, factory, office, etc etc and pay huge portions of their income in taxes to the govt. are patriots."

ComputerBreath wrote: I do not disagree...however, I work in an office now in the civilian world...so does my working in an office in the civilian world cancel out the 20+ years I spent in the military? Am I allowed to show my patriotism by displaying my retirement shadow box complete with US flag on my desk at my civilian job? Would you even consider me worthy to be a patriot?

Again I think you have totally missed the point. It isn't about what I think is or isn't a patriot. It is about a person who uses the fact they served in or served the military in some capacity to justify themselves being given a pass for their anti American activity post service.

"But they don't walk around beating on their chest going "Look what a good boy am I" do they?"
Actually, try again...I know plenty of arrogant individuals who do walk around beating on their chests going "Look what a good boy am I". They come in all shapes, sizes, and colors and they are extremely annoying...civilian, military, white, black, yellow, red, male, or female...they are out there.[/quote]

Again you take a line out of context so this is moot.

"And if all you have to to offer up in defense of you views on the environment, (whatever they are) is how many years you have sucked off the taxpayers, pretty much says your environmental positions don't pass the giggle test."

ComputerBreath wrote: As said earlier in this post, I am unsure as to what context this statement relating to the copied post is in.

Go back and read the quote I provided in its entirety. The picture may become clear to you.

ComputerBreath wrote: Now, let me tell you a couple things:
1) There are two words that will irritate and piss me off. Both refer to parts of a female's anatomy, both end in the letter "t". I do not use them. I do not like them to be used around me. They are vile, debasing and disrespectful. And this is entirely my opinion, so I'm sure there are others out there that will try to change my opinion...it won't happen. Seeing or hearing these words is akin to me seeing red. I apologize for jumping the gun.

Suggest you move to a country where they don't speak English and here is the important part. Don't learn the language there. Because as sure as the sun rises in the east they will have their own words for the same thing and then your precious sensibilities will be under assault yet again. Must have been 20 years of hell for you in the military with your dislike for words ending in T.

ComputerBreath wrote: 2) I believe the point of your original post was to complain about someone saying they were a patriot because they served in the military and then as a civilian at a government job and that no one should question their beliefs, conduct, or opinion because of this. If this is the case, then why all the other verbiage? And why so many generalizations?

ComputerBreath wrote: 3) And, FYI...I am female so sleeping in bubba's bunk sounds delightful.

I guess that admission speaks volumes about you.

ComputerBreath wrote: 4) I do not consider myself a "Lib" (liberal) or conservative. I am American.

Stand for nothing and fall for anything

Soulshiner wrote: One time at work, the subject of the Colorado Native came up. One girl was being very snobbish saying that she was born in CO had lived all of her life here. I replied that I wasn't born in CO and that while she had made no effort on her own to be in CO, I had given up the life I had where I was born, left my family and friends and made a huge effort to come and make a new life for myself in CO, so I believed that she had no right to be so self-righteous about her "Native" status, which she had from no effort on her own. Funny thing was both of her parents had moved to CO shortly before she was born...

In the overall scheme of life this seems petty. I'd recommend you take a look at the shape of their head and forgive them.

towermonkey wrote: Okay, poor phrasing. When you are convinced that your country is doing something wrong or immoral, you should try and steer it away from that path.

I think it's immoral and wrong for the government to take 35% of my wages and give it to others....who sit at home and do nothing but make guest appearances on [url=http://www.peopleofwalmart.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]http://www.peopleofwalmart.com[/url]

I guess I am a patriot.

rofllol rofllol

residenttroll wrote:

towermonkey wrote: Okay, poor phrasing. When you are convinced that your country is doing something wrong or immoral, you should try and steer it away from that path.

I think it's immoral and wrong for the government to take 35% of my wages and give it to others....who sit at home and do nothing but make guest appearances on [url=http://www.peopleofwalmart.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]http://www.peopleofwalmart.com[/url]

I guess I am a patriot.

Only if you're actively trying to do something about it....

Spending your working life living off the taxpayers tit doesn't make you a patriot. And claiming it does makes you look like an ass. The guys and gals who get up every day and go and bust their hump on the farm, mine, oil field, factory, office, etc etc and pay huge portions of their income in taxes to the govt. are patriots.

I agree with the point the OP is trying to make. I consider myself a patriot.

I think there are patriots who serve in the military - and many who serve are not patriots. Some of them hate our country - like that little A**hole who leaked all those classified documents to Wikileaks.

While people like me say he broke very serious laws and should be tried and if found guilty- SHOT - there are others (mainly on the left) who call this guy a patriot. He was not a patriot - he is a traitor.

So the word gets thrown around with different meanings depending on where it's coming from.

My ansestors were patriots - they helped form the country. I have 11 grandfathers who fought in the Revolutionary war. One of them fought under Washington.

My 3 uncles who fought in WWII were patriots - they were killed in the South Pacific on ships that were hit by kamikaze attacks. Dying did not make them patriots - they were patriots before they were killed.

That said - fighting for this country is proof of patriotism. I do have respect for those who risk their life and fight for America.

But we have to be careful - some of those who claim to love the country do not. I agree that some people join the service to undermine it- that little sack of trash who gave up classified secrets is an example.

I do think we tend to respect police officers and teachers more than we should - it takes more than just being a cop or a teacher to gain my respect. One could be a corrupt cop - or a lousy teacher. One could be a cop who spends all his time giving out traffic tickets to everyday commuters without objecting to his supervisors. In my mind - that just makes you a part of a bad system. A patriot would object - want to fight crime and refuse to be a revenue collector. One could be a teacher who slogs along with the status quo - without objecting to a system that fails to educate our kids. A patriot would complain when she sees this fraud - and want to teach our kids.

If your just a part of the system - you don't deserve my respect. If your just another leftist who thinks that socialism is where our country should be going - you don't get my respect.

I think your all part of the problem - and your not patriots in my book.

BearMtnHIB wrote:

Spending your working life living off the taxpayers tit doesn't make you a patriot. And claiming it does makes you look like an ass. The guys and gals who get up every day and go and bust their hump on the farm, mine, oil field, factory, office, etc etc and pay huge portions of their income in taxes to the govt. are patriots.

I agree with the point the OP is trying to make. I consider myself a patriot.

I think there are patriots who serve in the military - and many who serve are not patriots. Some of them hate our country - like that little A**hole who leaked all those classified documents to Wikileaks.

While people like me say he broke very serious laws and should be tried and if found guilty- SHOT - there are others (mainly on the left) who call this guy a patriot. He was not a patriot - he is a traitor.

and people like me say he should be tried and if found guilty shot....or locked away for life........please show me who on the left has called him a patriot

So the word gets thrown around with different meanings depending on where it's coming from.

My ansestors were patriots - they helped form the country. I have 11 grandfathers who fought in the Revolutionary war. One of them fought under Washington.

My 3 uncles who fought in WWII were patriots - they were killed in the South Pacific on ships that were hit by kamikaze attacks. Dying did not make them patriots - they were patriots before they were killed.

That said - fighting for this country is proof of patriotism. I do have respect for those who risk their life and fight for America.

But we have to be careful - some of those who claim to love the country do not. I agree that some people join the service to undermine it- that little sack of trash who gave up classified secrets is an example.

I do think we tend to respect police officers and teachers more than we should - it takes more than just being a cop or a teacher to gain my respect. One could be a corrupt cop - or a lousy teacher. One could be a cop who spends all his time giving out traffic tickets to everyday commuters without objecting to his supervisors. In my mind - that just makes you a part of a bad system. A patriot would object - want to fight crime and refuse to be a revenue collector. One could be a teacher who slogs along with the status quo - without objecting to a system that fails to educate our kids. A patriot would complain when she sees this fraud - and want to teach our kids.

I take it you have been getting a lot of traffic tickets if you think it isn't worthwhile to catch and punish those who would break the law.It isn't "revenue collecting", it's catching people who flaunt our laws......kinda like catching illegals.

If your just a part of the system - you don't deserve my respect. If your just another leftist who thinks that socialism is where our country should be going - you don't get my respect.

I think your all part of the problem - and your not patriots in my book.

I have a real proiblem when someone judges another as not being a patriot because they hold different political views. Actually I couldn't care less if I am a patriot in YOUR book, only if I know I am one in my heart. Why is it necessary to judge how others love their country? Love takes many different forms as does patriotism, to presume to judge someone elses patriotism based on your own prejudices is just wrong.

and people like me say he should be tried and if found guilty shot....or locked away for life........please show me who on the left has called him a patriot

The commie I was watching on Communism now (aka Democracy Now) last night was calling that little twerp a patriot. I think many of you leftists don't even know what's being said by some of your comrades - you should watch the news more often, you might be as discusted with what your "side" is saying.

Why is it necessary to judge how others love their country? Love takes many different forms as does patriotism, to presume to judge someone elses patriotism based on your own prejudices is just wrong.

It's necessary because so many people mask their hate for this country - how it came to be - and what makes it great - with the word patriot.

If you had any respect for those who gave their blood to defend her - if you had the same understanding as I do for the values and morals that built this country into the greatest on earth - you would know that socialism is exactly what those patriots were fighting against.

You wouldn't understand - you have a closed mind. What the left advocates for - is the distruction of what has been built by the people who were patriots. Don't try to re-define it - we know what a patriot really is.

If you advocate for socialism - you do not love this country - you just love the real estate. You just like the standard of living that the free market has created for you - but you hate the system and the values that got us there. You don't love those who fought to create a free society, your political views taken to their ultimate result would enslave us with more government and taxes and tyranny - not liberty.

Oh and I do consider a majority of the tickets our cops are giving out to be pure revevue collection - with the law as a backdrop to cover their ingenuousness. I do consider the majority of our teachers are doing a lousy job - serving their own interests while claiming to be doing it for the children. I can see this to be truth by observing the overall results.

Each individual teacher and cop knows in their heart if they are doing the right thing - or just performing as an agent of a bad system. The bad ones won't tell us if they are bad - that's part of the fraud. Every bad cop will lie - every bad teacher says it's not them, but collectively we all see the results.

And it takes substantial numbers of bad ones to get the results we have now.