So it is pretty clear at this point that Al Quata won.

If we won, we would not have turned our country in side out over 9-11.

In order for the terrorists to have lost, we would have had to not react and treat each other like instant criminals with no measured increase in risk. Their goal, insight terror and sink our economy. It was up to us, react as adults or react like 4th graders, we chose 4th grade.

Yes, it was bad, yes, they should not have done it, yes there has been more property damage from storms in the last month and more people died on our roads in the last month, and we pretty much knew both of those would happen before hand.

Anyone else bummed out that we and not the "enemy" that ruined our nation? That we allowed our politicians to over react in stead of elected statesmen that knew how to temper the mass rage and see what really happened.

I'm over 9-11 because we already overreacted by a factor of 100-1000-100,000,000.

And what's this Obama BS that "we will not live in fear"...that is all we have done...with no respect to the financial or societal cost. Revenge even if it kills our children and steals them of all opportunity....right. We pretty much said all rights are subject to review as a result of a few thousand deaths? They were willing to die and some of them did (Al Quata). Who won?

May the few thousand Americans and the hundreds of thousands of imprisoned and killed world citizens rest in peace, I am sorry we we changed our world for the worse. May the millions of Americans and World citizens find a way to live in peace, given their new and more difficult world we all asked for by reacting the way we did.

We succeeded beyond Bin Laden's wildest dreams... 19 guys with boxcutters bring down two towers, and put a hole in the Pentagon, and in a field in Pennsylvania... 28 Navy SEALS put an end to the miserable SOB that was behind it. In between was the loss of over a Trillion dollars, 6,000 US military personnel, (not to mention the hundreds of thousands of permanently wounded), two unnecessary wars, and an atmosphere where we sheep line up at airports to get groped, Xrayed, with our shoes off, in the name of letting the "Government protect us." We stand still for warrantless spying on our own citizens in the name of the "War on Terror"... (That's like a "War on Obesity"...Let me know when we sign the surrender documents on the deck of some battleship.) We torture people, or ship them off in secret to unnamed countries so they can be tortured even better, by someone else.

The money spent on unbridled greed "in the name of security" has crippled this country for decades to come. (We just posted an article about $580 Billion being thrown down the drain... How much MORE went down the drain that we DON'T know about?)

Yeah, I think I know who "won"....

But hey, once a year, we can wave flags and congratulate ourselves on our response....

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, should expect none and deserve neither." -- Benjamin Franklin

I was always taught in school that the USSR was evil for spying on their citizens, encouraging neighbors to turn in neighbors (and kids to turn in their parents!), detaining people without reason and disenfranchising citizens from the political process... </sarcasm>

Krugman fan?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... &seid=auto

posteryoyo wrote: If we won, we would not have turned our country in side out over 9-11.

In order for the terrorists to have lost, we would have had to not react and treat each other like instant criminals with no measured increase in risk. Their goal, insight terror and sink our economy. It was up to us, react as adults or react like 4th graders, we chose 4th grade.

Yes, it was bad, yes, they should not have done it, yes there has been more property damage from storms in the last month and more people died on our roads in the last month, and we pretty much knew both of those would happen before hand.

Anyone else bummed out that we and not the "enemy" that ruined our nation? That we allowed our politicians to over react in stead of elected statesmen that knew how to temper the mass rage and see what really happened.

I'm over 9-11 because we already overreacted by a factor of 100-1000-100,000,000.

And what's this Obama BS that "we will not live in fear"...that is all we have done...with no respect to the financial or societal cost. Revenge even if it kills our children and steals them of all opportunity....right. We pretty much said all rights are subject to review as a result of a few thousand deaths? They were willing to die and some of them did (Al Quata). Who won?

May the few thousand Americans and the hundreds of thousands of imprisoned and killed world citizens rest in peace, I am sorry we we changed our world for the worse. May the millions of Americans and World citizens find a way to live in peace, given their new and more difficult world we all asked for by reacting the way we did.

http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/ ... ancel-911/

While I don't agree with EVERYTHING in this, it certainly makes a point that I agree with. And miracle-of-miracles, this was FRONT-PAGE of the Op-Ed section today in the bastion of right-wing conservatism where I am today...

We won, but it was a very costly victory.

There is a particular narrative about Ronald Reagan and the end of the Cold War that has always struck me as compelling. The story goes like this: Reagan was able to finally win the Cold War and drive a stake through the heart of the Evil Empire because he realized that the Soviet economy was already badly overextended trying to prop up the war machine. (And what is it that we're trying to do now???) All he had to do was accelerate the arms race, dramatically increasing military spending (while also amping up the sabre-rattling rhetoric) and that would force the Russkis to bankrupt themselves trying to compete.

To be sure, this is a simplified version of what happened and it omits lots and lots of important detail that we’d do well to recall as we’re writing our histories, but underneath it all is a basic lesson: wars cost money.

Fast-forward to today, as Americans are breaking out the flags for the ten-year anniversary of the September 11, 2001 al Qaeda attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon (while whistling through the graveyard about rumors that terrorists are plotting some memorial activities of their own). ...I find myself wondering this afternoon if 9/11 happened, in large part, because Osama bin Laden learned something important from Ronald Reagan.

In his recent 9/11 reflection, Noam Chomsky writes this: http://chomsky.info/articles/20110906.htm

“[bin Laden] repeatedly asserted that the only way to drive the U.S. from the Muslim world and defeat its satraps was by drawing Americans into a series of small but expensive wars that would ultimately bankrupt them,” Eric Margolis writes. “‘Bleeding the U.S.,’ in his words.” The United States, first under George W. Bush and then Barack Obama, rushed right into bin Laden’s trap… Grotesquely overblown military outlays and debt addiction … may be the most pernicious legacy of the man who thought he could defeat the United States” — particularly when the debt is being cynically exploited by the far right, with the collusion of the Democrat establishment, to undermine what remains of social programs, public education, unions, and, in general, remaining barriers to corporate tyranny.

Interesting. As of this moment, US spending on the Iraq war (remember, by the way, that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11) is rapidly approaching $795 billion. http://costofwar.com/en/ The tab in Afghanistan is approaching $453 billion. Meanwhile, here at home, subtle meme-engineering and a series of clever manufactroversies (my new favorite word) in places like Wisconsin have people who ought to know better parroting the talking points of the hyper-wealthy, asking how we’re going to address the deficit without pausing to reflect on exactly how “addressing the deficit” became so damned essential. The truth is that this rhetoric, this ideology, is a complete fabrication on the part of people who never said a word about deficits or the need for belt-tightening during the Bush years.

I don’t really know if bin Laden studied Reagan and the Cold War. I don’t if his theory about breaking the US by suckering us into pouring all our cash into the desert on the other side of the world owes directly or indirectly to an analysis of the policies of The Great Communicator. But we do know that the Soviets had to choose, eventually, between arms and dinner.
http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2011/0 ... om-reagan/

Yeah, we're screwed. Just like in previous history, the war machine is going to bankrupt us - we're in a state of perpetual war, spending money we don't have to "keep us safe", when we keep doing things to interfere and piss other nations off and make them want to war with us, thus keeping the war machine fed in a vicious cycle. And the conservatives, who keep bleating like sheep that we need to cut spending, refuse to touch the sacred cow of the DoD citing that "we need to keep America safe!" - come on, give me a good counter-argument to this article. Won? Not by a long shot - not in less those in power, who are merely trying their best to keep the status quo, let Wall St. off the hook for their crimes, let special interests buy their votes so they can keep shipping jobs overseas and hoarding their cash while using "fear of Obama and his policies" as an excuse to not hire workers or invest in the economy, cut benefits to the poor but not add taxes to the wealthy who are enjoying the lowest tax rates they've had in decades, are kicked out. Wake up people. :snapoutofit:

What a sad commentary written in this thread today.
The "War" machine is not bankrupting this country......The vote for "change" is.

So it's pretty clear that Al Qaeda won eh? Let me think about this.

This morning all of us woke up to a peaceful Sunday morning with clear air, fresh water and little to no threat of bodily harm. Our children have received all their vaccinations and will go to decent schools tomorrow morning-boys and girls both...and it's unlikely they will be attacked while doing this. Most of us graduated high school and many not only attended college but actually pursued post graduate endeavors. All of us will likely live well past our 45th birthday and probably well into our 80s or 90s. We don't all agree with the plans that our elected leaders have for us...but none of us are planning to hurt those leaders because we disagree. Our women don't have to wear headdress and aren't treated like property. My friends can actually talk to my wife when they come to visit...it's okay....I won't have to stone her, beat her or anything like that for having friendly conversation with men not in her immediate family. I might drink a beer this afternoon and watch some football.

How about our Al Qaeda buddy this morning? He likely woke up to the sound of gunfire or a Predator flying over his village. Most of his children have never had ANY vaccinations and many have had or still have malaria and other maladies the US doctor's have to read about in books because they no longer exist in that "loser" nation-the US. As a devout Al Qaeda member he left school very early to study religion instead and has about a 4th grade education. He's going to yank his 8 year old son out of school any day now and he doesn't even want his daughter to attend at all.....so she can be just like her mom. Property. He's going to spend his day with many other simple illiterate men who also smell like goats and who are full of hate for things they don't understand but they are plotting ways to assassinate their provincial governor because he simply isn't radical enough for them so all in all it's a pleasant day.. By the way, He's in his early 40s and since the life expectancy there is 45 for men and 46 for women....he's in the "autumn" of his life....he has few teeth, many aches and pains...and is generally in a constant state of pissed off. He'd love a cup of tea, but the water he drinks every day smells strangely like sewage. What is beer and what is football? What is leisure?

So yes, if you call that "winning"...then Al Qaeda has certainly "won". I do see one silver lining though. None of the Al Qaeda have to listen to LJ, Archer and the rest of the libitards drone on and on about inconsequential things. I would call that a small win.

lionshead2010 wrote: So it's pretty clear that Al Qaeda won eh? Let me think about this.

This morning all of us woke up to a peaceful Sunday morning with clear air, fresh water and little to no threat of bodily harm. Our children have received all their vaccinations and will go to decent schools tomorrow morning-boys and girls both...and it's unlikely they will be attacked while doing this. Most of us graduated high school and many not only attended college but actually pursued post graduate endeavors. All of us will likely live well past our 45th birthday and probably well into our 80s or 90s. We don't all agree with the plans that our elected leaders have for us...but none of us are planning to hurt those leaders because we disagree. Our women don't have to wear headdress and aren't treated like property. My friends can actually talk to my wife when they come to visit...it's okay....I won't have to stone her, beat her or anything like that for having friendly conversation with men not in her immediate family. I might drink a beer this afternoon and watch some football.

How about our Al Qaeda buddies this morning? They likely woke up to the sound of gunfire or a Predator flying over their village. Most of their children have never had ANY vaccinations and many have had or still have malaria and other maladies the US doctor's have to read about in books because they no longer exist in that "loser" nation-the US. As a devout Al Qaeda member I left school very early to study religion instead and have about a 4th grade education. I'm going to yank my 8 year old son out of school any day now and I don't even want my daughter to attend at all.....so she can be just like her mom. Property. I'm going to spend my day with many other simple illiterate men who also smell like goats and who are full of hate for things they don't understand but we are plotting ways to assassinate our provincial governor because he simply isn't radical enough for us so all in all it's a pleasant day.. By the way, I'm in my early 40s and since the life expectancy here is 45 for men and 46 for women....I'm in the "autumn" of my life....I have few teeth, many aches and pains...and I'm generally in a constant state of pissed off. I'd love a cup of tea, but the water I drink every day smells strangely like sewage. What is beer and what is football? What is leisure?

So yes, if you call that "winning"...then Al Qaeda has certainly "won". I do see one silver lining though. None of the Al Qaeda have to listen to LJ, Archer and the rest of the libitards drone on and on about inconsequential things. I would call that a small win.

:thumbsup:

These sort of mindsets we have read in this thread against this amazing country can be expected from those who can't even spell the name of the enemy.