thoughts on the Trayvon murder

pineinthegrass wrote: I know the lead police investigator wanted to file a manslaughter charge. But the prosecutor wouldn't act on it. Now that there is a new prosecuter (and new acting police chief) perhaps something different will happen. The problem for them is that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. I don't know what evidence they have to prove him guilty of manslaughter or whatever charges they may file.

Does this incident make any of you who carry think what you might of done in a similar situation? I know it's a serious crime to pull a gun on someone (even an unloaded one) unless some strict conditions are met. Based on this, is anyone reconsidering if it's a good idea to keep carrying a weapon? Just curious...

Based solely on what we know so far I would not have gotten out of my car and followed the suspect. Again, there are way too many details that we just don’t know yet. That is assuming I carry. :Whistle

Pointing out that "racism" persists in our society is NOT "race-baiting". It is the recognition of reality. Deflecting reality by blaming others for "race-baiting" is highly suspect, in my opinion.

Even people who do not think of themselves as racists are very much capable of racist actions. Do I think anyone here has a KKK hood in their closet? No. But many comments on this thread have expressed very racist sentiments. Searching high and low for trivial character elements to somehow make the victim appear to be the aggressor, when no real evidence indicates such IS racially motivated. Resistance of a thorough investigation and sweeping the case under the rug IS racist. This is not "race baiting" - this is reality.

If somebody else making accusations of racism makes anyone here uncomfortable, then they really need some serious introspection. If one cannot accept the truth about who they actually are, what they honestly think and believe, they always have opportunity to change and grow. Denial and stubborn pride about "self" only further perpetuates the problem within our society.

To the contrary, the only evidence thus far suggests that Martin was the aggressor in the physical confrontation. There is no evidence that anyone saw Zimmerman throw the first punch, there is no evidence that Zimmerman drew his gun before being physically assaulted by Martin. There is evidence to suggest that Zimmerman lost contact with Martin when he was attempting to follow him. There is an independent witness to suggest that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him about his head and that Zimmerman was calling out for help immediately before Martin was shot. All of the evidence thus far suggests that Zimmerman was trying to defend himself at the time he shot Martin. There is absolutely zero evidence suggesting that Zimmerman shot Martin simply because he was black and wearing a hoodie. There is only one account of how the physical portion of their confrontation began and that comes from Zimmerman. In order to show that his account isn't true requires evidence to counter his claim in sufficient quantity to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he fabricated the story - which no one has at this point in time - which is why Zimmerman remains free instead of behind bars charged with murdering Martin.

Yes PV, racism persists in our society. Racism will always persist in our society. Some black people hate whites simply because they are white and visa versa and that will not ever change regardless of how many of us hope that it will. The more important question is how prevalent is it in our society, how often is someone targeted by a member of one race solely because they are of a different race. From any reasonable review of the information that is available, a black man is more of a danger to a black man than a white man is in our society. Why you refuse to acknowledge this reality is beyond my ability to comprehend.

plaidvillain wrote: Pointing out that "racism" persists in our society is NOT "race-baiting". It is the recognition of reality. Deflecting reality by blaming others for "race-baiting" is highly suspect, in my opinion.

Even people who do not think of themselves as racists are very much capable of racist actions. Do I think anyone here has a KKK hood in their closet? No. But many comments on this thread have expressed very racist sentiments. Searching high and low for trivial character elements to somehow make the victim appear to be the aggressor, when no real evidence indicates such IS racially motivated. Resistance of a thorough investigation and sweeping the case under the rug IS racist. This is not "race baiting" - this is reality.

If somebody else making accusations of racism makes anyone here uncomfortable, then they really need some serious introspection. If one cannot accept the truth about who they actually are, what they honestly think and believe, they always have opportunity to change and grow. Denial and stubborn pride about "self" only further perpetuates the problem within our society.

And why can't you admit that most most crimes against blacks are not from whites or hispanics...

The study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics also found that from 2001 to 2005, more than nine out of 10 black murder victims were killed by other blacks, and three out of four were slain with a gun. Blacks, who make up 13 percent of the population, were victims in 15 percent of nonfatal violent crimes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01964.html

And when there is white on black crime, we don't see Congress people getting up on the floor of the Senate dressed in gangster clothing, we don't see President Obama (the white black) getting up and making any statements. A few recent local murders that, for some odd reason, aren’t getting the same attention as the Trayvon Martin case. It’s so strange. I keep expecting Sharpton, Jackson and Obama to come storming to the microphones to rail at the injustice, but…nothing. Not even crickets.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120320/N ... y=obinsite

http://www.freep.com/article/20120329/N ... ey-Conaway

http://www.freep.com/article/20120329/N ... rs-Detroit

http://www.freep.com/article/20120329/N ... Phone-iPad

http://www.freep.com/article/20120329/N ... poll-shows

Since the police were just wrapping up the investigation into the killing, there was not much public information on exactly what happened on that night. We had Zimmerman’s account and a few neighbors who had information after the fact. So the left ran with the spotty first look account and built a case against Zimmerman and threw it at the public. Our national race-baiting national treasures Jackson and Sharpton jumped on the proverbial bandwagon and began beating the racism drums… and the media followed the beat and built a picture of a puppy-faced angel who looked like the male child that the Obama never had. Unfortunately that picture was 3-4 years old (and the media knew that) and showed Trayvon in a light that had nothing to do with his present look or demeanor. But it served it’s purpose. Zimmerman just killed the boy-next-door.

Why do you have so many problems with the recognition of these realities?. Deflecting reality by finding a racist under every rock is highly suspect, in my opinion.

The town of Sanford has released the security video of Zimmerman entering the police station. It shows absolutely no physical injuries, particularly no broken nose or head lacerations or any other sign of physical altercations which he is alleging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWDNbQU ... e=youtu.be

[youtube:65f2as9j][/youtube:65f2as9j]

oh, i feel so sorry for him. it's OBVIOUS now that this vid has come to light what a pummeling he took. it boggles the imagination how he could have withstood such punishment by this black, devil-child and survived. zimmerman must have an iron will to live.... apparently trayvon was beating him senseless and just before he delivered the death-blow, Zimmerman, with the grace of god and his last ounce of strength, pulled his gun to save his life. god bless America!

Zimmerman was the aggressor the moment he ignored a direct order from police, stepped out of his car, and accosted Martin with absolutely no authority to do so. -Hey, what are you doing walking around here at night?- -None of your damn business.- Whatever happened after Zimmerman followed and approached Martin is absolutely a result of Zimmerman's mistake, and his responsibility for this at least demands a thorough investigation. By every account, the police did not conduct a thorough investigation (there should not be new witnesses coming up weeks later, for example). Simply be fair to the deceased and I will be satisfied. Fortunately, due to public pressure, a thorough investigation will be done...we'll have to see what comes of it.

Tell me PS, is it fine to provoke, accost or harrass somebody, then use lethal force as self defense when they respond? Granted, each individual must control their reactions, and Martin bears responsibility for whatever he did as well, but to presume the innocence of andgrant protections to the shooter, seems to me to negate the deceased's right to defend themselves.

It's almost like you see it as Zimmerman's word against Martin's, and you don't mind Martin not saying anything.

First, thanks for posting the new video. It looks like the original rather than a video of a video as posted before.

The police report said Zimmerman had a bloody nose (broken nose was added later by his attorney and now his dad), swollen lip, bloody lacerations on the back of the head, and grass stains on his back.

I'll agree you can confirm none of this on an initial viewing of the video, and I'll let the video enhancement geeks do their thing not that I'll be impressed. But the guy was treated before hand and probably cleaned up, plus the video still isn't clear enough to me to tell anything about the injuries. As I said before, I think we'll get a report from the people who treated him that night, and the next day. Maybe photos too. Those reports will mean much more to me than the unclear video from a distance. Just because the videos don't obviously confirm the injuries doesn't mean they didn't happen.

I've researched a bit about when a person legally carrying a gun is allowed to use lethal force. From what I've seen, if you initiate a fight (like punching a person), you don't have an excuse to later use lethal force unless the first incident clearly ended. The big question to me is does the fact that Zimmerman followed they guy means he initiated a fight? Apparently the first prosecutor didn't think so. We'll see what the 2nd one thinks.

It does appear to me that charges may be eventually filed. We'll see what, if any, they are.

Does anyone else thinK Zimmerman now has no chance of finding an impartial jury to rule on this case?

He's not charged with anything.